Andiparos Kite Surfers - what the hell do I do?

[KevinV]

So what do the Colregs say about speed in congested situations? Are kite surfers entitled to travel at 20kts in confined spaces, or should they reduce speed to a more conservative, say, "6kts"?

Why not just read the colregs? If they can manoeuver and stop safely they are, by definition, travelling at a safe speed. What that speed is will depend on the skill of the user - just like any other vessel.

 

[Irish Rover]

Why not just read the colregs? If they can manoeuver and stop safely they are, by definition, travelling at a safe speed. What that speed is will depend on the skill of the user - just like any other vessel.

I guess people using jet skis, high powered ribs etc would be delighted with that interpretation

 

[KevinV]

I guess people using jet skis, high powered ribs etc would be delighted with that interpretation

How else do you interpret it? It's not proven unsafe until a collision occurs

 

[Bouba]

So what do the Colregs say about speed in congested situations? Are kite surfers entitled to travel at 20kts in confined spaces, or should they reduce speed to a more conservative, say, "6kts"?

I would think that crossing a marked channel would put the kite surfer in the wrong no matter what happened next

 

[Irish Rover]

How else do you interpret it? It's not proven unsafe until a collision occurs

I think you're stretching it now but, anyway, I've no interest in debating the length of a piece of string.

 

[TwoFish]

Simple, they're a sailing vessel:

Rule 3
General definitions
. For the purpose of these Rules, except where the context otherwise requires:
(a). The word “vessel” includes every description of water craft, including non-displacement craft, WIG craft and
seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.
(b). The term “power-driven vessel” means any vessel propelled by machinery.
(c). The term “sailing vessel” means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being
used.

Nope. Why should they be considered a sailing vessel? They are not vessels (or craft used in transportation) and they are not sailing. All credit to the editor of Surfer Today for responding to you, but both the article and his response shows he has little a flawed understanding of the COLREGS. Whilst the linked article does contain some sensible recommendations, it states them as 'musts' without any support for such statements. It should be filed in the bin rather than being cited as 'the rules'.

Full disclosure: I'm a windsurfer, late to big boat sailing. Most windsurfers regard kites as an inherrently annoying nuisance because of their unpredictability, the space they take up and their habit of trailing long lines over the water. That said, they exist, we share the water and we normally all get along. Courtesy, respect and good sense is normally extended in both directions. That bias disclosed though, kitesurfing was clearly not something envisaged at the time the COLREGS were written and does not appear to fall within the definitions of the COLREGS*. Therefore it seems we're back to the common sense principles which underpin the COLREGS, that the more manoeuvrable thing keeps out of the way of the less manoeuvrable thing. In most cases that will mean that kites should keep out of the way of everyone and everything else.

Please don't take this as an 'assertion of rights' post. It's not meant in that way and my preference is for us all to get along and (even more importantly) to keep things safe. However both those objectives are undermined if false statements are made about 'the rules' which may lead to kiters getting into dangerous situations with other water users.

*In UK waters, on the basis of the judgement in R v Goodwin (re a jet ski) kitesurfers and their equipment probably also fall outside the statutory UK application of the COLREGS via the provisions of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 and the Merchant Shipping (Distress Signals and Prevention of Collisions) Regulations 1996. However even where the COLREGS do not apply by statute, it would be hard to defeat an argument that they are accepted as codification of proper practice.

[Edit] I had originally written that the Surfer Today writer had "little understanding of the COLREGS". On re-reading the article, I think that was somewhat harsh (and a little rude) and so have now corrected that to "a flawed understanding of the COLREGS".

 

[Bouba]

A seaplane maybe a vessel...but if they strike you from the air...you can’t be expected to avoid the collision...if a flying man on a kite hits a vessel, it also won’t have the means to avoid the collision

 

[penfold]

Seaplanes are at the bottom of the pecking order; they keep clear of everyone.

 

[MisterBaxter]

If a kite surfer is to be classed as a vessel, then they have the same responsibility as everyone else to maintain safe control over their vessel and to take action to avoid a collision even when they are the stand on vessel. I think the safest thing would be to hold a steady, slow and predictable course and let them dodge around you; if you're in any way constrained in your ability to manoeuvre, I think that would also be correct under COLREGs.

 

[Bouba]

I think also that if you assume that the kite surfers know the coll regs...then you have to assume they know the codes for using your horn...so use five short blasts...then wait and repeat...you don’t want anyone claiming that you were giving mixed signals because you were hammering on the button

 

[Mister E]

If I was on a kite surfer then I would not want to run into a large object.
It would hurt.

 

[Irish Rover]

If I was on a kite surfer then I would not want to run into a large object.
It would hurt.

Of course, but like the rest of us they only have 2 eyes. In my encounter there would have been a minimum of 4 other surfers in close proximity to any given one, not all on his same side or travelling in the same direction. Actually in other circumstances you could admire their control and awareness. They reminded me somewhat of a murmuring of starlings.

 

[Bouba]

They reminded me somewhat of a murmuring of starlings.

What a lovely sentiment …you could use that at their memorial

 

[geem]

Of course, but like the rest of us they only have 2 eyes. In my encounter there would have been a minimum of 4 other surfers in close proximity to any given one, not all on his same side or travelling in the same direction. Actually in other circumstances you could admire their control and awareness. They reminded me somewhat of a murmuring of starlings.

They are very manoeuvrable. The fact that there were so many in such a small space means they have to keep a very good look out so they don't hit each other. They will be well aware of your presence, I am sure.

 

[sails_02]

As a once kite surfer I can almost guarantee you that from the perspective of the kites you were as interesting an obstacle as a slow moving apartment building, and equally predictable.

If you’ve ever been skiing you will be familiar with “the feeling” as a beginner of being overwhelmed by the more competent skiers buzzing within inches of you, and then later on realising that from a competent skiers perspective a beginner is effectively stationary.

The same applies to your entrance. Just go slowly and predictably through the group, stop if someone falls in front of you.

In terms of colregs, most kite, wind and wing surfers are aware of starboard stand on and pretty much nothing else.

All that said, I would be very wary of being downwind of a kite as they are very dangerous and relatively unpredictable, I don’t trust them at all!

 

[steve yates]

Honestly, I don't see the point. The article as quoted is, in my opinion, extremely misleading insofar as it has no mention of the responsibility on all water users to take measures to avoid collisions and to be cognisant of circumstances which would immediately transform a surfer from being stand on to give way. There's also no mention of yachts under sail, vessels constrained by draft, vessels under tow etc etc. I think we just give this propaganda credence by contributing to it.

Is that not the point right there?

 

[Irish Rover]

Is that not the point right there?

Maybe you're right. If you think it will do any good, by all means, rewrite their blurb for them and perhaps @KevinV might collaborate with you, since it was his idea in the first instance.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Delete as it don’t really apply to this thread