And what about the Lobster pot buoys?

[Robin]

Best would be to contact local sea fishery district offices. All fishermen have to submit regular documentation to these, a notice could easily be sent out, would reach every (registered licenced) boat.


The MFA also sends out monthly licence variations.

The thing is, not getting at anyone in particular, but everyone's happy to moan on here, no one will do anything sensible about it. Get a bit of weight of opinion behind you, (you'd only have to show one of these threads) go to the RYA, job done. It might even make a difference.

Thanks Fisherman. There was on the old forum one for collecting data on this and later to be submitted to the RYA/MCA and so on. There were hundreds of reports submitted but we never heard what the outcome was if anything.

In my case after nearly 40 years of it I've probably made my last X-Channel trip now as we are moving to the USA next year. We are going liveaboard on a 'trawler' but not in the fishy sense more a moboyottie one. I feel I can comment on the current but do little about trying to influence change.

 

[fisherman]

The fishing industry is an odd one, and reminds very strongly of farming. They are probably the only two occupations left which assume that children have a right to follow their parents into the business, regardless of aptitude. They also both demand government support in lean times yet seem curiously loth to pay extra taxes when things are going well.

For example, Peterhead is widely known for astonishingly high drug abuse levels resulting from fishermen hitting the town with fat pay packets ... but skippers regularly demand that the state should buy them new fishing boats.

QUOTE]

Thread drift, really.

The children have no more or less right to be a fisherman than anyone else, just the opportunity and inclination.

It's at least twenty years since we had any support, moral or financial. Support then was a 25% grant and a 50% loan, at commercial rates, with associated tie in period.

We pay the same taxes as any other small business. If we had to pay extra as a result of support in lean times that would be called a 'loan'.

 

[Fascadale]

Oh dear, a hornets' nest.

I do agree that badly marked and placed pots are a hazard as I said in an earlier post.

Yes, pot buoys are a hazard, especially the badly marked ones shot across harbour mouths and fairways and yes I agree that it would be more convenient to the amateur boater were they not.

I do not agree that "yachties" should take matters into their own hands by lifting other people's gear thereby interfering with their attempts to earn a living. If you have a complaint to make, then make it to the correct authorities, the local sea fisheries boards as listed above.

(Do fishermen fall into the same category as the Navy, the Fleet Auxiliary, climate scientists, social workers, any politician to the left of O Mosley and all civil servants?)

 

[haydude]

Commercial shipping and yachts/powerboats seem to get on pretty well together. Why are fishermen a separate case ?

We cannot even compare fishermen to farmers. The latter operate on their own land.

Fisheremen instead foul public spaces with gear that is dangerous to everyone else.
There are responsible fishermen of course who try to mitigate the danger by placing their gear in sensible places making it well visible.

But there is also a mass of small boat irresponsibles operating in the vicinity of a marina or in dangerous passages. And I saw too many of these cases to make them an exception.

When commercial ships and yachtsmen occupy a space they are well visible and try hard not to procure any danger to anyone else.

 

[haydude]

I do not agree that "yachties" should take matters into their own hands by lifting other people's gear thereby interfering with their attempts to earn a living.

If the gear is marked with identification, clearly it has got an owner. Otherwise unmarked and unattended fishing gear is deemed as abandoned and it could be mine as yours as nobody's. That is the law.

If the gear is not marked, than the "supposed owner" has something to hide and he better shut up

 

[fisherman]

If the gear is marked with identification, clearly it has got an owner. Otherwise it could be mine as yours as nobody's. That is the law.

If the gear is not marked, than the "supposed owner" has something to hide and he better shut up

So that bike on the street, unmarked, has no owner, 'could be mine as yours as nobody's '. Quote me the law that says you must have your name on your property to maintain ownership.

If I lose a wodge of money in the street and you find and keep it, it's 'stealing by finding' and that IS the law.

 

[Fascadale]

Fisheremen instead foul public spaces with gear that is dangerous to everyone else.

But there is also a mass of small boat irresponsibles operating in the vicinity of a marina or in dangerous passages. And I saw too many of these cases to make them an exception.

Strong stuff indeed.

I'm not sure where you do your boating Mr Dude, but I am yet to see the shores of Britain piled high with yachts whose props and rudders are entangled in fishing gear.

I do try to keep abreast with MAIB reports and I cannot recall any reports of yachts lost to fishing gear.

I think you are overstating your case somewhat.

Are you perchance the same gentleman that said he would cut the warps of any yacht rafted up to him?

 

[Twister_Ken]

"I'm not sure where you do your boating Mr Dude, but I am yet to see the shores of Britain piled high with yachts whose props and rudders are entangled in fishing gear.

I do try to keep abreast with MAIB reports and I cannot recall any reports of yachts lost to fishing gear."

Check http://www.ybw.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=29

 

[wotayottie]

One or two rather bold assumptions there; untrue, unpleasant and displaying the sort of ignorance and arrogance which does give (many)"yachties" a bad name.

Having been a commercial fisherman in my time I can assure you that, on the whole, what you say is untrue.

Yes, pot buoys are a hazard, especially the badly marked ones shot across harbour mouths and fairways and yes I agree that it would be more convenient to the amateur boater were they not.

Perhaps the waters around our coasts are a little too challenging for some: not enough health and safety, not enough regulation, not enough respect for the right of others to try to make a living in a difficult and dangerous environment. Maybe we should all stick to the council boating pond.

Its rather like the townie who moves into the countryside and then starts complaining about the noise/smells/mess made by the cows.

You don't have to be there if you don't like it.

I was with you until you betrayed an attitude with condescending comments like " convenient to the amateur boater" and so on. Doesnt come well from the people who have polluted and raped our seas, but I guess you were responding like for like to some of the yottie posts above.

Personally I have found inshore fishermen both pleasant and helpful over the years with one single exception of an idiot I came across in Ilfracombe. He was the sort of person who would have been just as obnoxious in a yacht so lets discount him.

You are right that the issue of unmarked pot buoys is not a major one - or at least when the RYA has tried to raise it in response to members pressure, they have struggled to get any hard evidence from sailors of problems actually being caused. I wonder if anyone on here has persoanlly had a boat disabled by a pot buoy.

Thats said, putting unmarked buoys in harbour entrances and in frequently used inshore channels is irresponsible and dangerous. It's putting greed before someone else's safety. Just how are you supposed to spot a half submerged weed encrusted old engine oil container, with no stick or flag and in the middle of the night? Whether "amateur" as you describe us or "professional" as you would describe yourself, you have no chance.

Sadly, the present practise shows that we cannot expect inshore fishermen to exercise responsibility on their own. Indeed in some areas they have replaced rope with wire in response to rope cutters there for peoples safety. It's difficult to see wire traces as anything other than a plan to endanger other boaters. So change will have to be forced by law in the end.

What would you think of someone laying traps in the middle of dark sections of the M1 at night? Would that be responsible? It's the same thing.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Perhaps the waters around our coasts are a little too challenging for some: not enough health and safety, not enough regulation, not enough respect for the right of others to try to make a living in a difficult and dangerous environment. Maybe we should all stick to the council boating pond.

Have to say I don't much care for the cut of your jib old boy !

Do you really own a yacht ?

If there was a broken down car on a dangerous bend, and likely to cause a crash, any decent type would push the thing over the cliff for the benefit of others.

Would you call yourself a decent type ?

Or are you a slave to health and Safety ?

WE need to know !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Twister_Ken]

"You are right that the issue of unmarked pot buoys is not a major one - or at least when the RYA has tried to raise it in response to members pressure, they have struggled to get any hard evidence from sailors of problems actually being caused. I wonder if anyone on here has persoanlly had a boat disabled by a pot buoy."

There's a whole forum full of posts here devoted to it.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=29&page=1&pp=40&sort=dateline&order=asc&daysprune=-1

 

[fisherman]

I would really want to see actual evidence of these wire traces, I've seen that on here before. If anyone can produce one they should take it in and make a fuss.

What good will it do if your wire trace goes away with the yacht that picks it up in the prop? So maybe it's to stop someone cutting it: how is the owner to haul it? You can't put wire through a pot hauler. If he can haul it by hand so can the guy who wants to cut it, must come to a rope at some point.

Have you any real evidence this has been done, or is it hearsay?

Aahh. Just one possibility. Some crabbers put shark hooks, with wire traces, on their buoys, leave them over the day. Could it be that?

 

[Pete7]

Ones that really worry me are the deep water ones laid mid Channel, with a large buoy and another smaller pickup buoy on a long (10m) floating line attached.

Me too, and quite suprised how far out they were, mid channel with all the big ships all around. Watched a 10m grey boat pick up the last of his pots then high tail it back towards Weymouth or Poole area at a good lick last year.

St Vasst is a problem, arrived at dusk to find a mine field of small black flags on poles just a mile or so outside the harbour.



Pete

 

[Bajansailor]

Just trying to be optimistic here - if you think the south coast of Britain is over populated with lobster pots, try sailing in New England.

We sailed up there 15 years ago and the density of pots everywhere was astonishing!
Pot buoys were even to be seen in between the moorings in the anchorages.

And it is probably worse now - unless they have 'lobstered out' the whole population by now.
Although I seem to remember that they all (generally) had brightly coloured floats with sticks on them - but still no good at night, when coming into an anchorage.

 

[Adonnante]

The thing is, not getting at anyone in particular, but everyone's happy to moan on here, no one will do anything sensible about it. Get a bit of weight of opinion behind you, (you'd only have to show one of these threads) go to the RYA, job done. It might even make a difference.[/QUOTE]

Many have gone to the RYA with this issue, their response is available here-

http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/regssafety/safteytips/Pages/fishinggear.aspx


Peter.

 

[fisherman]

Yes, the RYA took it on board, they went to the MCA, who included it in guidelines, Sea fish committees only stipulate what can be caught and where etc etc. No good looking for legislation, too long a process.

No one issued a piece of paper to every fishing vessel highlighting the specific problem, asking them to reconsider the way gear is rigged, and if the RYA wrote it the Sea fish committee could do that. So can the MFA. I'm sure it could be included in the regular mail shots, and any reasonable fisherman would take the info on board.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

That's passing the buck Fisherman. Responsible fishermen dont need a letter to tell them to properly mark their pots and to avoid putting them in fairways, and irresponsible fishermen will do nothing anyway.

The real issue here is that there is no effective policing. If, for example, the UK borders people simply confiscated every unmarked pot they found, there soon would be nothing but marked pots. And the reason there is no effective policing ( apart from the usual government ineffectuality) is that when challenged the RYA were able to show lots of moans but were not able to come up with data showing a serious safety issue. I know - I was personally involved at one time in raising the issue with the RYA and then in trying to get data of accidents caused by pots within the area I represented. All the areas reporting had a similar experience.

Admittedly this was maybe 10 years ago and they might by now have had a more successful campaign. But I guess not or more vigorous action would have been taken.

 

[fisherman]

So you could not come up with data to show the extent of the problem which manifestly exists. The RYA was trying to get the law changed, trying to force an issue that may only need some cajoling. Hedgeslammer to crack a nut. We know the power of advertising, that's what I suggest. In spite of some of the posts on here fisherman are not out to cause trouble to other seafarers, far from it, but some may be unaware of the possible problems.

Lots of people just carry on doing what 'has always been done'. That's why I stiil have to pick my way through part time fishing marks, just outside the harbour, which have a string of buoys along 60 fm of floaty rope. This is because the bloke that sets them was fishing 40 years ago in the days of sisal rope, that had to be kept up all along its length.

They do what they are used to without thinking, they do it til someone points out a better way. We are all improving methods and practices year on year, it might only need a hint.

There has not been a serious effort to make the problem clear to those causing it. For what it would cost I think it's worth setting it all out in black and white, in a missive to every boat, that way no one can say they didn't know there was a problem. Otherwise this will crop up here from time to time, with all the usual vitriol, I sometimes get the feeling folk don't want it solved, they'd sooner have something to moan about... present company excepted, of course.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

So you could not come up with data to show the extent of the problem which manifestly exists. The RYA was trying to get the law changed, trying to force an issue that may only need some cajoling. Hedgeslammer to crack a nut. We know the power of advertising, that's what I suggest. In spite of some of the posts on here fisherman are not out to cause trouble to other seafarers, far from it, but some may be unaware of the possible problems.

Lots of people just carry on doing what 'has always been done'. That's why I stiil have to pick my way through part time fishing marks, just outside the harbour, which have a string of buoys along 60 fm of floaty rope. This is because the bloke that sets them was fishing 40 years ago in the days of sisal rope, that had to be kept up all along its length.

They do what they are used to without thinking, they do it til someone points out a better way. We are all improving methods and practices year on year, it might only need a hint.

There has not been a serious effort to make the problem clear to those causing it. For what it would cost I think it's worth setting it all out in black and white, in a missive to every boat, that way no one can say they didn't know there was a problem. Otherwise this will crop up here from time to time, with all the usual vitriol, I sometimes get the feeling folk don't want it solved, they'd sooner have something to moan about... present company excepted, of course.

In seriousness, I personally feel that your contributions on this thread have been excellent.

I often breakfast with a professional inshore fisherman who believes that many of his colleagues are complete idiots.

Like many, I have personal experience of being caught up in them in a nasty sea just outside a bar , to seaward , in the last place you would expect to find one. We had a buoy wedged in the rudder with the flag and about 100m of line, gear and flag towing behind us going nowhere.

After quite some time, we were very lucky when the buoy suddenly bobbed up and became free. During this time, we were on the VHF trying to stop other yachties who were heading for another lot even closer to the Bar entrance.

Personally, I don't feel that there is any lasting solution that can be taken, And accept that our creator must have a great sense of humour all this just adds to the experience of boat ownership.

 

[dmmbruce]

Potty

Oh dear, since it was my post earlier that has been largely misconstrued and has lead to some amazing statements, may I offer a light hearted story.

Somewhere around 1954, in Cardigan Bay we were sailing with some Brummie relatives. It was their first time on a boat. They were horrified!

We found a lobster pot buoy, they asked what it was, and refused to believe it. Lobsters (rare in those days) are in fish-mongers, not out in the sea.

After some argument my father picked up the buoy, and pot to show them. Amazingly there was a lobster in it! Chaos, there was a large dangerous creature. They would NOT believe it was a lobster because it was black, lobsters are pink.

To my astonishment, my father got a bucket, 1/2 full, boiled it (they were metal in those days) and cooked the lobster till it was done, and of course pink. My obnoxious relatives quietened down. My father then put the lobster back in the pot and lowered it to the bottom. We up anchored and sailed off.

I would love to have seen the fisherman's face when he lifted that!!!

I fear it would in fact have been eaten by crabs, but I've enjoyed that ever since.

Cheers everyone!!!

Mike