fisherman
Well-Known Member
Criminal damage, same as if you did something to a car, illegally parked and across your drive way. Mind you, (whisper) I don't make too much effort to miss gear like that, it has to take its chance with the cutters.
And what about the Lobster pot buoys?
- Thread starter haydude
- Start date
Criminal damage, same as if you did something to a car, illegally parked and across your drive way. Mind you, (whisper) I don't make too much effort to miss gear like that, it has to take its chance with the cutters.
Fascadale
Well-Known Member
One or two rather bold assumptions there; untrue, unpleasant and displaying the sort of ignorance and arrogance which does give (many)"yachties" a bad name.
Having been a commercial fisherman in my time I can assure you that, on the whole, what you say is untrue.
Yes, pot buoys are a hazard, especially the badly marked ones shot across harbour mouths and fairways and yes I agree that it would be more convenient to the amateur boater were they not.
Perhaps the waters around our coasts are a little too challenging for some: not enough health and safety, not enough regulation, not enough respect for the right of others to try to make a living in a difficult and dangerous environment. Maybe we should all stick to the council boating pond.
Its rather like the townie who moves into the countryside and then starts complaining about the noise/smells/mess made by the cows.
You don't have to be there if you don't like it.
Robin
Well-Known Member
Around Poole and the Solent there seems to be 'Black Can Man' who has a limitless supply of old black chemical containers and cheap floating rope. His navigational skills are not good either as most of these are set in channel entrances, exactly in the way of the maximum passing traffic. I had put this one down to one of the Dole Queue 'amateurs' but there are far too many of these and too widely distributed for that branch of the trade.
Others in the same area have much better marked gear with poles and flags (often black which does stand out on a flag but not on a can) and these are not laid in channel approaches.
Ones that really worry me are the deep water ones laid mid Channel, with a large buoy and another smaller pickup buoy on a long (10m) floating line attached. As most leisure traffic is headed north south at 90 degs to the strong tides these are real traps because we are approaching them head on to the floating line. Even the big buoys are sucked well down in the tide so these are not easy to see and especially not in any sea running or at night. These are also seen in quantity south of Guernsey laying on the strong tides across the path of boats going to/from Brittany harbours. It is the length of the floating line that is the potential killer, I wonder if it could not be much shorter?
All this apart, we love lobster etc so would be very upset if none were available! That doesn't stop me for wishing I had a shotgun on board for target practice on the black cans dead on the entrance to North Channel off Hurst... Would an air rifle with darts work I wonder?
Others in the same area have much better marked gear with poles and flags (often black which does stand out on a flag but not on a can) and these are not laid in channel approaches.
Ones that really worry me are the deep water ones laid mid Channel, with a large buoy and another smaller pickup buoy on a long (10m) floating line attached. As most leisure traffic is headed north south at 90 degs to the strong tides these are real traps because we are approaching them head on to the floating line. Even the big buoys are sucked well down in the tide so these are not easy to see and especially not in any sea running or at night. These are also seen in quantity south of Guernsey laying on the strong tides across the path of boats going to/from Brittany harbours. It is the length of the floating line that is the potential killer, I wonder if it could not be much shorter?
All this apart, we love lobster etc so would be very upset if none were available! That doesn't stop me for wishing I had a shotgun on board for target practice on the black cans dead on the entrance to North Channel off Hurst... Would an air rifle with darts work I wonder?
fisherman
Well-Known Member
Some fishermen rig the buoy with a 'tailer', small float or dahn on a stray to enable them to get the rope to the winch while the buoy is dragging in tide. This should be on very light rope, for your safety, or rigged with leaded rope attached 3 or 4 fathoms down the main line, so you can pass between. Unfortunately many fishermen don't recognise the problem. A notice along the lines of 'Please do this...' in the fish merchants or local Producer Organisation/fishery office might help. PO is normally a good contact.
Perhaps the RYA or local sailing club could initiate a dialogue.
Perhaps the RYA or local sailing club could initiate a dialogue.
Leighb
Well-Known Member
This does not guarantee you won't get a rope round your prop. See my post in the Fouled stern gear section
This was in the dark, so Mk 1 eyeball of no use either.
fergie_mac66
Well-Known Member
seen more than my fair share of pot bouys and a few sein nets often sailing around Sheringham/Cromer hundreds of em up there..Fortunatly never got caught but dont worry too much about them, they are part of that rich tapestry of sea life. Same as keeping a good watch at sea.Fisherman have a living to earn and its a hard life.Most of bouys that i come across have 4 foot canes with flags on but are a few pellet bouys.
Mind you a good tip worth carrying a couple of bricks tied together longish cord if you get keel hooked on afloating net or some such , brick dropped each side cord pulls it down
Mind you a good tip worth carrying a couple of bricks tied together longish cord if you get keel hooked on afloating net or some such , brick dropped each side cord pulls it down
Tranona
Well-Known Member
This does not guarantee you won't get a rope round your prop. See my post in the Fouled stern gear section
This was in the dark, so Mk 1 eyeball of no use either.
Agree, long keel may provide some protection, but potentially make it worse if you do pick up something - piece of net in my case which filled the aperture so lost a lot of rudder movement as well as propulsion.
Gordonmc
Well-Known Member
There are a couple of creel boats operating where I keep the boat and I have got to know one crew from the pub. My general impression is they are not in the business of paying good money for creels to leave them improperly marked for boats to destroy.
The operating method for prawn creels is to use a pair of large bouys with a vertical riser to ground weights, between which is a line with up to 20 creels on the seabed. The risers are weighted lines and pose no danger.
Conversely I saw a couple of ropey old creels on the deck of a yacht last weekend. The lines were baler twine and the floats black plastic oil bottles.
The operating method for prawn creels is to use a pair of large bouys with a vertical riser to ground weights, between which is a line with up to 20 creels on the seabed. The risers are weighted lines and pose no danger.
Conversely I saw a couple of ropey old creels on the deck of a yacht last weekend. The lines were baler twine and the floats black plastic oil bottles.
Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
Reply to Robin
On our return from the Cherbourg Scuttlebutt meet this year, we came accross a line of small yellow bouys some 50 mtr apart all joined together by floating line, laid east west. - some 10 bouys. The vigilant helmsman noticed a line on the surface and went hard a starboard - and followed up the floating line to the end bouy.
What on earth was it - a drift net? I have never seen that before.
On our return from the Cherbourg Scuttlebutt meet this year, we came accross a line of small yellow bouys some 50 mtr apart all joined together by floating line, laid east west. - some 10 bouys. The vigilant helmsman noticed a line on the surface and went hard a starboard - and followed up the floating line to the end bouy.
What on earth was it - a drift net? I have never seen that before.
haydude
Well-Known Member
I have already seen that this type of mobs behaviour is quite radicated in England. What is disconcerting is the sarcasm Brits have about other parts of Europe, failing to look inside their own backyard.
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haydude
Well-Known Member
I understand that fishing gear is supposed to be marked with the name of the vessel to which it belongs. This however has an implication because if the gear in question was inadequate and an incident was caused, the owner is liable for damage.
Hence most do not mark their gear with identification. In this case unmarked gear is as good as abandoned. Therefore if it is removed or damaged intentionally no criminal damage applies.
fergie_mac66
Well-Known Member
then again you could pull it up get yourself a lobster supper and reset it where you think it should be
err you might get get a large boat hook where you dont or possibly do want it
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Fascadale
Well-Known Member
I have no idea as to whether you are correct in law but thats a very, very unwise thing to do, and an exceptionally irresponsible thing to advise others to do.
Are you unable to go about your leisure pursuit without causing trouble for others ?
haydude
Well-Known Member
I thought that poorly marked or irresponsibly placed lobster pots were causing troubles, actually more than troubles: damage and potentially put lifes at danger.
Imagine a yacht with children on board approaching a marina channel in the dark after a whole day sailing to get there, only to get the propeller fouled by a can type pot buoy that was not supposed to be there, and now near a water breaker with tide and swell!
Are you trying to reverse the argument?
The hell! Yes I am encouraging everyone to have these removed!
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Robin
Well-Known Member
What we see is as much as 30mls offshore between Poole/Solent and Cherbourg/Alderney so could be from anywhere not just Poole although the south of GY ones we see are undoubtedly from St Peter Port boats. These are not light lines though that is for sure and although we have a line cutter that doesn't help under sail.
ianat182
Well-Known Member
During last year I recall seeing a Notice to Mariners at Cowes stating that any unmarked pots found in the Cowes Approaches would be removed. Also during last summer I spotted the Southampton Harbourmaster's launch cutting off unmarked plastic fruit containers in Southampton Water.
During the season our Club Pursuit race start lines are laced with these 'buoys'from the shallows into the deeper Southampton water;many are submerged due to the tidal curren.
A few more responsible fishermen are placing a stick on them and occasionally a flag of sorts, along the Calshot/ Lepe shore and there are black container jobs amongst these. So far we've been lucky but on a windier day we probably wouldn't be able to spot these in time to avoid them.
ianat182
During the season our Club Pursuit race start lines are laced with these 'buoys'from the shallows into the deeper Southampton water;many are submerged due to the tidal curren.
A few more responsible fishermen are placing a stick on them and occasionally a flag of sorts, along the Calshot/ Lepe shore and there are black container jobs amongst these. So far we've been lucky but on a windier day we probably wouldn't be able to spot these in time to avoid them.
ianat182
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
Any fisherman who illegally leaves gear unmarked in a dangerous position is asking for it to be dealt with,
I suspect that most of the real fishermen - you know, the ones with local knowledge and an appreciation of the sea and other sailors - wouldnt do such a thing. It's the cowboys who have a wee boat, a big engine for a bit of extra part-time money who are more likely to foul the nest.
LONG_KEELER
Well-Known Member
Why can you not ask the same question of the fishermen ?
Your argument seems to be all one sided.
i.e. the fishermen own the sea and the rest of us have to fit in with whatever they decide to do.
i.e. badly sighted buoys/lines, and ineffectual buoys.
Commercial shipping and yachts/powerboats seem to get on pretty well together. Why are fishermen a separate case ?
fisherman
Well-Known Member
Best would be to contact local sea fishery district offices. All fishermen have to submit regular documentation to these, a notice could easily be sent out, would reach every (registered licenced) boat.
•Cornwall www.cornwall.gov.uk/seafisheries
•Cumbria www.cumbriasfc.org.uk/
•Devon www.devonseafisheriescommittee.co.uk
•Eastern www.esfjc.co.uk
•Isles of Scilly www.scilly.gov.uk/environment/fisheries/
•Kent and Essex www.kentandessex-sfc.co.uk
•North Eastern www.neseafish.gov.uk
•North Western and North Wales www.nwnwsfc.org
•Northumberland www.nsfc.org.uk/
•Southern www.southernsfc.org.uk
•South Wales www.swsfc.org.uk
•Sussex www.sussex-sfc.gov.uk
The MFA also sends out monthly licence variations.
The thing is, not getting at anyone in particular, but everyone's happy to moan on here, no one will do anything sensible about it. Get a bit of weight of opinion behind you, (you'd only have to show one of these threads) go to the RYA, job done. It might even make a difference.
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
The fishing industry is an odd one, and reminds very strongly of farming. They are probably the only two occupations left which assume that children have a right to follow their parents into the business, regardless of aptitude. They also both demand government support in lean times yet seem curiously loth to pay extra taxes when things are going well.
For example, Peterhead is widely known for astonishingly high drug abuse levels resulting from fishermen hitting the town with fat pay packets ... but skippers regularly demand that the state should buy them new fishing boats.
Don't get me wrong - many fishermen are honest, friendly, helpful and responsible. I've had a couple of amazingly fast trips through the Crinan Canal, tied to the side of a fishing boat in a hurry to get home and happy for me to sit back and relax while they did all the work. Unfortunately there is a significant proportion of thugs whose aim is to pillage as much as they can as fast as they can and to hell with yachts, collapsing fish stocks or anything else which gets in their way.