PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
Why ? We pay full duty on our propulsion fuel and reduced duty on heating fuel, same as everyone else. The cost of marine fuel for propulsion is higher than road fuel
And now the RYA wash their hands of it ...
- Thread starter Elemental
- Start date
Why ? We pay full duty on our propulsion fuel and reduced duty on heating fuel, same as everyone else. The cost of marine fuel for propulsion is higher than road fuel
maby
Well-Known Member
Why ? We pay full duty on our propulsion fuel and reduced duty on heating fuel, same as everyone else. The cost of marine fuel for propulsion is higher than road fuel
You might. We do. Many do not.
D
DogWatch
Guest
Is there a link for this video?
Blueboatman
Well-Known Member
New solution.
We as educated responsible members of the EU, enjoying tax paid on heatinf fuel and propulsive stuff, are encouraged to fit a diverter valve and seperate tank for engaging in international activities . The size of the tank to be commensurate with what we in the UK are legally allowed to lug away from the garage in a plastic jerryjug.....
Simples. Fair, transparent even, box ticking all round..
But no jobs for the boys in the EU legal trough
We could even "seal'' the red stuff as bonded stores whilst in the mighty bureaucratic hearth of the EU
We as educated responsible members of the EU, enjoying tax paid on heatinf fuel and propulsive stuff, are encouraged to fit a diverter valve and seperate tank for engaging in international activities . The size of the tank to be commensurate with what we in the UK are legally allowed to lug away from the garage in a plastic jerryjug.....
Simples. Fair, transparent even, box ticking all round..
But no jobs for the boys in the EU legal trough
We could even "seal'' the red stuff as bonded stores whilst in the mighty bureaucratic hearth of the EU
maby
Well-Known Member
Been done to death - if there is a route for the red to the engine which does not involve dismantling and reconfiguring your fuel system, it is not compliant.
prv
Well-Known Member
Why ? We pay full duty on our propulsion fuel and reduced duty on heating fuel, same as everyone else. The cost of marine fuel for propulsion is higher than road fuel
If that was really the case, the drivers of huge motorboats on the South Coast would have no problem with the idea of red going away. After all, the amount of fuel an Eberspacher uses doesn't vary between a sailing boat and a power one.
So if everyone pays full duty on their propulsion fuel, how come half the yotties are calling for white-only but the powerboat boys are cursing them for traitors?
(Sticking to central South Coast to rule out those sharing fishing-boat supplies, which presents a different, valid, issue.)
Pete
Mulge
Well-Known Member
The Belgian RNSYC website suggests a solution that ought to satisfy everybody.
They recommend that (Belgian) yachts taking on diesel in the UK go for a 100/0% split keep the receipt acknowledging that full tax has been paid on the diesel (whether to be used for propulsion or heating) and make a note in the log book accordingly.
UK skippers planning to head to Belgian (or even French or Dutch) waters could ensure that in the period ahead of their voyage they do the same so that they have valid 100/0% receipts for volume of fuel in their tanks on arrival.
That way, those in closest proximity to the continent don't bring down the whole pack of cards for the rest, marinas and fuel barges don't have to provide two streams of diesel and the only downside is that there is a tax (in the shape of the tax on 40% "heating" diesel) for those that go foreign. Givent hat there is no appetite to find a cost free solution for everybody, even on the part of the RYA this seems to be unavoidable and the least inequitable.
It won't appeal to the purists but it seems to be a very pragmatic solution to me.
Mark
They recommend that (Belgian) yachts taking on diesel in the UK go for a 100/0% split keep the receipt acknowledging that full tax has been paid on the diesel (whether to be used for propulsion or heating) and make a note in the log book accordingly.
UK skippers planning to head to Belgian (or even French or Dutch) waters could ensure that in the period ahead of their voyage they do the same so that they have valid 100/0% receipts for volume of fuel in their tanks on arrival.
That way, those in closest proximity to the continent don't bring down the whole pack of cards for the rest, marinas and fuel barges don't have to provide two streams of diesel and the only downside is that there is a tax (in the shape of the tax on 40% "heating" diesel) for those that go foreign. Givent hat there is no appetite to find a cost free solution for everybody, even on the part of the RYA this seems to be unavoidable and the least inequitable.
It won't appeal to the purists but it seems to be a very pragmatic solution to me.
Mark
maby
Well-Known Member
An excellent suggestion - all we need is for the various tax authorities on the continent to agree that it will satisfy them. Barring an unexpected storm, we had no intention of visiting Belgium anyway, but it would be nice to see an undertaking from France - I have no wish to risk a heavy fine.
Mulge
Well-Known Member
I would have thought HMRC could justify a trip to Paris, Brussels and Amsterdam to discuss with their counterparts on our behalf.
maby
Well-Known Member
I doubt they need much excuse for a day out!
maby
Well-Known Member
Follow up - I emailed the RYA about this and got back a reply saying that the post on the Belgian web site is a couple of years old and does not take into account the more recent Belgian revenue actions. Apparently the RYA are back in touch with them to ask if we could still expect to avoid a fine if we can show that we payed the full tax.
prv
Well-Known Member
Sadly, the Belgian tax authorities are purists, and it's their opinion that matters.
Pete
Grumpybear
Well-Known Member
the issue is not the payment of duty. the issue is that marked fuel is for use by commercial vessels ONLY, as prescribed by the EU directive. The Belgians are applying their own law which Is consistent with the directives.
British law does not appear to comply with the directive despite our having had many years to make it so, and the fudge is unravelling. We leisure boaters are hoist with the petard prepared by the marine industry (who didn't want to install extra tankage) and our representatives in the RYA who thought we wanted to carry on using fuel which our government had committed to stopping us using (because we told them so).
I simply cannot see how any solution which allows leisure boaters to continue burning dyed fuel in their engines, even with full duty paid, can ever be legal in this country so long as the government remains signed up the the directive.
We need to stop erecting castles in the air and start pressuring our marinas and fuel suppliers to sell us legal fuel.
British law does not appear to comply with the directive despite our having had many years to make it so, and the fudge is unravelling. We leisure boaters are hoist with the petard prepared by the marine industry (who didn't want to install extra tankage) and our representatives in the RYA who thought we wanted to carry on using fuel which our government had committed to stopping us using (because we told them so).
I simply cannot see how any solution which allows leisure boaters to continue burning dyed fuel in their engines, even with full duty paid, can ever be legal in this country so long as the government remains signed up the the directive.
We need to stop erecting castles in the air and start pressuring our marinas and fuel suppliers to sell us legal fuel.
Elemental
Well-Known Member
Elemental
Well-Known Member
mcframe
Well-Known Member
Anyone happen to know the octane rating of de-emulisified Asda-finest-Jamie-taste-the-Oliver-organic-diference mayonnaise? That would *really* fox 'em ;->
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
Where do you get this 'handful' from Paul?
Its thousands every year.
If the same problem existed with Cherbourg, i'd support the south coast sailors. And thats what its equivalent to. For most east coast boats, Belgium is the only viable weekend overseas opportunity, with other countries being too far.
Seems that the 'i'm allright Jack' mentality is spreading.
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
Face it Neil - in the grand scheme of things East Coast sailors don't matter and are easily ignored.
When 'they' started putting up windfarms (and exclusions zones) left, right and center no-one on the South Coast cared. Ditto red diesel.
Yet, we are expected to get all excited about Studland Bay.
grumpy_o_g
Well-Known Member
Ah, so you know the Belgian law then? Could you please tell us (or at least me) what it is?
PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
Only because you don't accept what has been said.
In the UK, we use red diesel, as recently confirmed by UK gov and HMRC.
Just because that doesn't suit you, doesn't mean that isn't what was announced.
