And now the RYA wash their hands of it ...

[maby]

...
Anyone who calls them can get an upfront agreement that they won't be prosecuted.

....

Mmmm, not too sure about this - the examples he gave were of a small number of organised rallies - you try getting permission as a private individual to break the law! If we were talking about a few tens of pounds - rather like a parking fine - it would not be a problem, but the fines that have been reported have been very high. I'm quite happy to steer clear of Belgium - will be monitoring other people's experiences with France with interest!

 

[Sybarite]

i thought he said that you could contact the marina in belgium and get clearance in advance. ostend at anchor has got blanket clearance for UK boats to arrive with red diesel in their tanks. i'm trying to find out if i can get it by calling the marina or mailing them in advance of crossing to ostend.

I don't know how a marina can give clearance when it's a custom's matter. If the customs give clearance for one port they have created a precedent which would allow you to challenge them in law. Doesn't sound logical to me.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

But it's simple, isn't it? Allow only white diesel to be sold. We yotties mourn the passing of a terrific perk but accept that times have changed. The fishermen fill up at the full price then claim a rebate via their VAT returns or some other method as yet to be invented. Then your fuel barge is safe and will do as much business as before, possibly at a better margin.

Just as illegal as the present red only deal. All duty rebated diesel has to be marked with dye - that what we signed up to.

Mind you it would create another industry. Instead of farmers flogging red diesel to yotties as at present we would have fishermen flogging white diesel to motorists and HMRC unable to detect it in their tanks.

 

[sailorman]

I hereby give notice that i will be arriving in Oostende ( Allah & weather willing ) on the 24-05-2012 E.T.A 19.00z.
will keep you posted .

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Mmmm, not too sure about this - the examples he gave were of a small number of organised rallies - you try getting permission as a private individual to break the law!

What so it's ok to give multiple people permission to break the law but not individuals?

Maybe. We shall see.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

I hereby give notice that i will be arriving in Oostende ( Allah & weather willing ) on the 24-05-2012 E.T.A 19.00z.
will keep you posted .

Pussy! If I was doing that trip, I've be in and tied up by 18:50, easy.

 

[sailorman]

Pussy! If I was doing that trip, I've be in and tied up by 18:50, easy.

we like a lie-in to give the others a chance.
a few yrs ago we met a forumite in the RNSYC bar the evening of arrival we had been ther a while .
Oh he said, how long have you been in. about 2 hrs we said, Oh we passed you on the mooring ,this morning & no sign of life, how far did you sail he enquired, 73 N mls i said.
Well we did over 90 how come you did 73 then.

his boat was at least 5 ft longer than ours

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

we like a lie-in to give the others a chance.

 

[gerry99]

To my mind the issue is the Mexican standoff between the Commission and the UK Government both of whom claim to be in the right following "legal advice" but in the end only one party will be proven to be correct.

The EU Commission has started infraction proceedings against the UK Government which will ultimately be heard by the European Court of Justice if the matter is not settled beforehand.

This can take a few years, in the meantime the UK Government and the RYA are quite happy for the rest of us to have to deal with the fallout, uncertainty and hassle whilst the proceedings follow their extremely slow path towards a hearing at the ECJ. It is this attitude which annoys me.

Both organisations should, if they are so certain of the merits of the case and the strength of their interpretation and legal opinion be pushing for a rapid resolution of the matter before the ECJ, which they are not doing.

The fact they will be asking us to sign a declaration acknowledging that use of red dyed diesel for the propulsion of private pleasure craft is not necessarily legal outside of UK jurisdiction leads me to believe that they are not that sure of the strength of their case and are hoping for some amicable resolution with the EU Commission or divine intervention, neither of which I am banking on happening any time soon or at all!.

 

[Grumpybear]

To my mind the issue is the Mexican standoff between the Commission and the UK Government both of whom claim to be in the right following "legal advice" but in the end only one party will be proven to be correct.

The EU Commission has started infraction proceedings against the UK Government which will ultimately be heard by the European Court of Justice if the matter is not settled beforehand.

This can take a few years, in the meantime the UK Government and the RYA are quite happy for the rest of us to have to deal with the fallout, uncertainty and hassle whilst the proceedings follow their extremely slow path towards a hearing at the ECJ. It is this attitude which annoys me.

Both organisations should, if they are so certain of the merits of the case and the strength of their interpretation and legal opinion be pushing for a rapid resolution of the matter before the ECJ, which they are not doing.

The fact they will be asking us to sign a declaration acknowledging that use of red dyed diesel for the propulsion of private pleasure craft is not necessarily legal outside of UK jurisdiction leads me to believe that they are not that sure of the strength of their case and are hoping for some amicable resolution with the EU Commission or divine intervention, neither of which I am banking on happening any time soon or at all!.

Rapid resolution implies less than maximum income for lawyers, so very unlikely. letting this take its course is for the government equivalent to kicking it into the long grass. it does seem more than a little naive to expect our rulers to stick their necks out to help even a significant minority of their subjects without either a real electoral benefit or threat of exposure of a scandal. What we need is a newspaper or two to take up the cause of us poor, hard pressed owners of luxuryyachts. Anybody know the editor of the Daily Mail?

 

[maby]

... What we need is a newspaper or two to take up the cause of us poor, hard pressed owners of luxuryyachts. Anybody know the editor of the Daily Mail?

That would certainly get a fast resolution!

 

[emnick]

Red diesel

IMHO This will not get sorted until the French fine yachts and mobos. Once the volume of boats on the south coast is affected it will come to a head for bettor or worse!

 

[maby]

IMHO This will not get sorted until the French fine yachts and mobos. Once the volume of boats on the south coast is affected it will come to a head for bettor or worse!

If the French do not start fining boats, it really does not need resolving. If the RYA actually want to do something useful for a change, they could try to get a clear policy statement from the French authorities.

 

[Blueboatman]

Chipfat, lots of it, from Tesco. That'll puzzle em on dipping the tanks. Since diplomacy has failed...sign of the times really.
The idea that Belgium having created the obsession with tank dipping are now going to say "oh high, welcome, you're fine( fine eh) to visit actuslly''....seems farcical and highly unlikely short of creating tax inspector-free marinas..

Freeport anyone?

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

The idea that Belgium having created the obsession with tank dipping are now going to say "oh high, welcome, you're fine( fine eh) to visit actuslly''....seems farcical and highly unlikely

It seems to me the whole "obsession with tank dipping" in so far as it applies to UK boats is a total myth.

And yes, they are agreeing to not prosecute groups of visiting boats in advance, on request!

They'd lose more in tourism than they'd gain in fines by annoying UK boats so sounds very reasonable to me.

 

[Blueboatman]

Sounds far too sensible, doesn't it?

 

[Judders]

Yawn.

Someone remind me what the RYA is for?

Apart from perpetuating it's own existence and it's once brilliant but now discredited system of qualifications.

 

[Tranona]

This can take a few years, in the meantime the UK Government and the RYA are quite happy for the rest of us to have to deal with the fallout, uncertainty and hassle whilst the proceedings follow their extremely slow path towards a hearing at the ECJ. It is this attitude which annoys me.

Both organisations should, if they are so certain of the merits of the case and the strength of their interpretation and legal opinion be pushing for a rapid resolution of the matter before the ECJ, which they are not doing.

If you listen to what the man says, then you will know that if the EU decides not to proceed it could be "decided" in a few months. If it does continue then it could go on for years.

So, I guess you have to wait for that decision. Pointless taking alternate action while there is still a possibility that the current position is declared legal.

Amazing that some people think that if only the RYA would change its tune and campaign for the opposite of what it has supported for several years, everything would be OK.

Get real, this is EU politics.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

What do you propose the RYA do about it? The government is determined to stick to the current arrangements and is still pursuing its case with the EU.

Nothing the RYA can do about that, nor about Belgium other than what they are doing, which is trying to persuade the Belgian authorities to be more lenient.

If the EU case goes against the government then they will have to comply. If they win, nothing changes except they are in a better position to persuade Belgium not to take any action against UK visitors.

Totally agree. I know for a fact that the BMF and RYA continue to talk to HMRC in support of the case going to the European Courts. We just have to be patient in the meantime.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

If you listen to what the man says, then you will know that if the EU decides not to proceed it could be "decided" in a few months. If it does continue then it could go on for years.

So, I guess you have to wait for that decision. Pointless taking alternate action while there is still a possibility that the current position is declared legal.

Amazing that some people think that if only the RYA would change its tune and campaign for the opposite of what it has supported for several years, everything would be OK.

Get real, this is EU politics.

Blimey, Tranona, this is twice I have agreed with you in one thread !!