Anchors, once again.

Re: Blimey ..... who\'s talking absolutes ????

[ QUOTE ]
I don't disagree .....

All in all ... my posts allied with all the others - bar a few adverts of course - point in one direction ................... Not one anchor is answer - they all have merits, the bottom is important factor along with prevailing conditions.

All I was doing was showing that my plough anchor even in poor conditions held along with the chain I used............

[/ QUOTE ]

SBC I do not agree that your plough has held in poor conditions, it is not a sensible statement. A brick of the same weight would have been just as effective, and clearly there is a large demand for anchors that are not bricks.

I think you have not set your anchor, which is a tsk-tsk from any sail instructor. The fact that you tried and it wouldn't set is no excuse. Still, at least you have a twin-keeler and can just "park" on the bottom!

I have been researching anchors over the last few days, and ended up here. I am afraid I see a large number of posts from people who clearly do not have the relevent experience to address the original poster's query in a meaningful manner.

In fact the most useful piece of information on this thread is the chart from Craig Smith of Rocna. However I have already seen the Sail test itself, so it is not new to me. I consider it not definitive or conclusive, but certainly interesting, and feel the criticism of it is unfounded. Sail and West Marine have done a good job.

Whenever anchors come up, there seems always a multitude of spanners clammouring to ensure their opinion of their anchor is made clear. "My CQR is the best". "My Bruce is the best". Etc.

What I would like to see is someone with useful experience. I do not want to read "My CQR is the best". I want to read "I used a CQR and a Bruce and I decided the CQR was best". Since the thread starter was asking about specific anchor types, does anyone actually have a valid and SUPPORTABLE opinion on them?
 
Anchors

[ QUOTE ]
What I would like to see is someone with useful experience.

[/ QUOTE ] Firstly, a very warm /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif welcome to the forum /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif If you look back towards the beginning of this thread you will see that I have shared some very useful experience about anchoring in weed. I hope this helps your research.

Edit:- Edited the title back to something that relates to the subject, not the opinion of some poster somewhere back in the thread
 
Re: Anchors

Thank you Lemain.

Although your post(s) perhaps exemplify my comment - on a cursory re-look I see only mention of Bruce and Danforth?

The thread starter waagener was asking for opinions on the Rocna versus Manson Supreme. One a copy of the other, is there any difference, is the more expensive one still worthwhile, etc. Or so I take it.

Also the Bugal and Spade.

Two pages later and not one person has addressed this (at least not with the benefit of experience).

My opinion is that the "original" is likely to be better, and I am fairly confident in this opinion especially given the Sail test, but I cannot provide credible info myself to support this opinion as I have used neither - but I now share the same interest as waagener.
 
Re: Anchors

[ QUOTE ]
Although your post(s) perhaps exemplify my comment - on a cursory re-look I see only mention of Bruce and Danforth?

[/ QUOTE ] I am very careful not to contribute to thread drift - digression - until either the original question has been answered, the topic has been exhausted or the digression has already happened. If you read the thread a little more thoroughly, you will see that the discussion had widened beyond the OP's question and we were talking about the validity of Rocna's post (itself not directly related to the OP) and other anchoring techniques and anchors.

That's both the beauty and frustration of forums, no? I don't suppose that you will find many threads that stick entirely to the OP and it would be pretty boring if they did, IMO.

Anyway, welcome again. Have you been a poster here in the past, under a different identity, perhaps?
 
Re: Anchors

I did have a login for YBW ages ago but forgot it and its password.

I hear what you say about thread drift. Evidently this one would be quite short without it. However the fact remains the OP has not been addressed. Anyone?
 
Re: Anchors

[ QUOTE ]
I did have a login for YBW ages ago but forgot it and its password.

[/ QUOTE ] Just a friendly comment; if a newcomer is going to take issue with other people, especially those who have been around for a while and whose expertise (and limitations /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) are already well-known then it is helpful if the newcomer fills in a bit about themself - what sailing and boating experience they have, for a start. Comments from someone with twenty-five years experience of blue-water cruising are a different thing from comments coming from someone who is presently undertaking a Competent Crew or Day Skipper course! Unless you tell us, how are we to know?
 
Well, you certainly have gotten stirred up into a series of posts, one after the other (apparantly as more points slowly came to your mind), disagreeing with, castigating, etc me.

However, given the following claim which you make with no personal knowledge of me whatsoever -

"I propose another golden rule in anchor selection is "Beware of forum addicts who spend more time in front of a keyboard than sailing (or anchoring)". The number of posts under your username, when compared to your YBW registration date, is fascinating."

I can only assume you commonly give advice or pass comment from a position of little knowledge and so your posts are not worth responding to.

John
 
Isn't this all great stuff and I've enjoyed watching but now I have to make a few comments which may or may not go down well with some but that's my style and to be honest I quite enjoy it.

My job is to spec anchoring and mooring gear. I do this for many differant people, boats, locations and so on. I sell anchors ropes and the chain. I have sitting in my shops the largest range on anchors in the Sth Hemisphere including Spade, Rocna , Supreme, Delta and many many more including the genuine items and some knock-offs of those items.

I get feedback which I activly encourage and speak to the manufactuers of the products, the boat builders, the retailers and the actual users be they newbies or very well travelled. I also do lots and lots of in-house testing of all our products so I know what I'm selling is upto the job and won't put people or boats in unnessasary risk.

Some comments:
My answer to the orginal post: I have a 32ft yacht and many tonnes of anchors and goodies to choice from at basically no cost. I have 2 kids who I'm not often prone to wanting to kill and a wife who knows boats and how to seriously hurt me. Based on what I have learnt, heard and seen I fitted 2 anchors which I feel are the best I can get, both are 'new generation' (nasty phrase I think really). One is a 4.5kg alloy one and the other is a NZ made 10kg from a company who only makes one anchor. I anchor a lot and don't have the slightest problem leaving the boat alone on anchor for a couple of days. Obviously I have a well matched rode behind both of them.

The alloy is probably a size down from what one poster here (Hi AP) would suggest but I am more than happy it will hold serious loads far above what I require in the bottom types around here. It is also my racing anchor. The other anchor is steel and used when I head off for a week or so cruising. Again I don't have the slightest doubt it will not let me down.

I sell more Manson made anchors than anything else, mostly the Plows. Why? because that is what most ask for. We have seen a trend away from this developing quite quickly over the last year or 2.

I don't quite agree with Alains 'all chain' is bad theory but otherwise think he is right more often than not on most points.

I don't knock people who are enthusiastic about their product. Who doesn't get excited about things they think are great? Sure Craig has an interest but any enthusiasium is a good thing in my books. I also suspect more than one of Craigs comments have been interpreted poorly or the odd 'tounge in cheek' comment has not been picked up on well. Again I don't fully agree with everything he says but I would be very hard pushed to point out anything he has posted as complete c**p.

You can have a 40ft boat with a 100lb anchor that will drag at the same time an identical boat with only a 30lb anchor of the same type will not. It is an anchoring system you want not just a small part of it called an anchor. Think system or you'll end up wasting money and possibly put yourself in a postion where you think you have a good set-up when if fact it is c**p. This is surprisingly common.

Compairing anchoring performance between a 25ft and a 40ft can not be done. Generally boats under 25ft are over anchored and boats above 45ft under anchored. Techincally speaking you could anchor a 25fter on 4mm chain and a 10lb anchor but would you feel safe? no bloody way so you go up some sizes and hence get 'over anchored'. If you look at Working load limits and weights verses boat size/displacement your average 45fter is seriously under anchored compaired with smaller boats. If you want to compair anchor system peformance you need to be talking roughly the same sort of boats.

I have yet to find a knock-off that performs as well as the orginal except from the wallet side of things.

There is only one or 2 anchors I will not sell due to seriously dangerous performance. Talking orginals here and if talking knock-offs there is many.

Don't knock just Manson for copying. Looked at Lewmar and most other 'big' names anyone? Lewmar Claws?? yeah right, chinese Bruce knock-off shitters.

Using oversized anchor systems is fine as long as your willing to sacrifice boat performance. Using seriously over sized gear can be very very dangerous.

A well matched rope and chain combo rode is all you need in 95% of situations. All chain is for offshore cruisers, people who need a tad more anchoring experiance, have had poorly set-up rodes in the past which have given them a fright, people using too small an anchor or MOBO's who are driven by dickheads just to save us poor yachties from there lack of grey matter.

People in the Nth hemisphere apper to usually use to short a length of chain. 1.5 times boat length absolutly minimum. A couple of metres is just plain silly.

many more if you like but think I'll wonder off now and watch the flames /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Yes I've alway had very poor spelling, sorry folks.
 
what a wonderfull response - shame in one sense that you felt it appropriate to have to make it but good in another that you have.

wouldn't be me if I didn't pick up on something.........with the hope that it adds something to anyone looking in later.

you reference to Alain's dislike of all chain rodes

my interpretation is that he has no objection to them per se providing that 'sufficient' elasticity can be included in the rode which he considers a significant factor in a rodes overall performance in certain conditions. The introduction of an appropriate length of nylon or polyester in series or parallel will actually improve the performance of the rode in these conditions. logically series makes more sense when anchoringin deeper water to avoid the need to carry (relatively) huge additional weights in smaller craft.

fair?
 
[ QUOTE ]
... If I understand it correctly, the other figure in grey, the "max pull", is largely unimportant since this is that figure recorded while the anchors were dragging, and who cares once it's dragging - too late yes? ...

[/ QUOTE ] Is that correct? Surely if the anchor puts up resistence while dragging that's better than letting go altogether.

Hoping to learn here, and not trying to challenge the more experienced.
 
Re: Anchors

[ QUOTE ]
Just a friendly comment; if a newcomer is going to take issue with other people, especially those who have been around for a while and whose expertise (and limitations /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) are already well-known then it is helpful if the newcomer fills in a bit about themself - what sailing and boating experience they have, for a start. Comments from someone with twenty-five years experience of blue-water cruising are a different thing from comments coming from someone who is presently undertaking a Competent Crew or Day Skipper course! Unless you tell us, how are we to know?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Lemain,
Take your point. I am an Essex lad and you will not find cause to call me a blue water cruiser. In fact I would suggest I have less boating experience than most on this forum. But that, I think, and I am trying to be humble, actually gives me a slightly more neutral point of view, as some of the posters here seem very colored in their opinions - and what irks me is they are not, as far as I can tell, supporting their opinions with valid facts or experience!
So you will not see me claiming to know all the answers, rather more often asking for them, but I am not afraid of challenging those living room experts who would like to pretend they do.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
... If I understand it correctly, the other figure in grey, the "max pull", is largely unimportant since this is that figure recorded while the anchors were dragging, and who cares once it's dragging - too late yes? ...

[/ QUOTE ] Is that correct? Surely if the anchor puts up resistence while dragging that's better than letting go altogether.

Hoping to learn here, and not trying to challenge the more experienced.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I agree, assuming my interpretation is correct. If the "max pull" figure is high, then that's good, it means it doesn't just let go altogether as you say. But relatively speaking, the "max before release" is more important as it's the one you really care about. Once you're dragging you then care about the "max pull" figure, but, well, then you're dragging aren't you.
Some of the anchors don't seem to have a "max pull" figure at all. I assume that means they did pull out.
 
[ QUOTE ]
My job is to spec anchoring and mooring gear. I do this for many differant people, boats, locations and so on. I sell anchors ropes and the chain. I have sitting in my shops the largest range on anchors in the Sth Hemisphere including Spade, Rocna , Supreme, Delta and many many more including the genuine items and some knock-offs of those items.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi G Mac, another one from New Zealand - or someplace else down under? Don't you people realize this is a British forum? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Your comment above is one of the most interesting I've seen on this thread as it implies you know what you're talking about with respect to all different anchors, which is what this thread is currently lacking.

What is your opinion, in answer to the opening post?

[ QUOTE ]
Some comments:
My answer to the orginal post: I have a 32ft yacht and many tonnes of anchors and goodies to choice from at basically no cost. I have 2 kids who I'm not often prone to wanting to kill and a wife who knows boats and how to seriously hurt me. Based on what I have learnt, heard and seen I fitted 2 anchors which I feel are the best I can get, both are 'new generation' (nasty phrase I think really). One is a 4.5kg alloy one and the other is a NZ made 10kg from a company who only makes one anchor. I anchor a lot and don't have the slightest problem leaving the boat alone on anchor for a couple of days. Obviously I have a well matched rode behind both of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's interesting. I take it the alloy one is a Spade and the other a Rocna? Manson is the only other NZ company I know of and they make more than one. Or are you deliberately not stating names.

[ QUOTE ]
I have yet to find a knock-off that performs as well as the orginal except from the wallet side of things.

There is only one or 2 anchors I will not sell due to seriously dangerous performance. Talking orginals here and if talking knock-offs there is many.

Don't knock just Manson for copying. Looked at Lewmar and most other 'big' names anyone? Lewmar Claws?? yeah right, chinese Bruce knock-off shitters.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love the way you express yourself! Fantastic. I have a list here. There are several copiers that seem to be big: Davis, Kingston, Lewmar, Fortress, West Marine, so it is true that Manson are not alone.

But would you agree with Craig from Rocna's somewhat veiled implication that the anti-knock-off argument applies to Rocna, something nobody apart from Manson have yet copied?

The problem is that as waagener says, it (the Supreme) is cheaper to get here in the UK than the Rocna is, as there's no local Rocna dealer.
 
Hi GMac

How's things in the North?

I agree with you generally (as always /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif) except for the bit about copies always being inferior. World would be in a right going backwards pickle if second tries were always inferior. Certainly some difficulties in quality though with some.

Have you had any feedback on the Supreme (I think the original poster may still be waiting for an answer on that too /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif)? I have not even seen a real one yet down here but maybe when get out and about over summer will do so. I mean real worthwhile feedback not just a claim that it must be best because the owner has it (or even worse made it /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif) as no anchor is "best" (although, for holding, something along the lines of a 2 tonne block of concrete dropped off the bow does very well).

John
 
[ QUOTE ]
duncan
you reference to Alain's dislike of all chain rodes

my interpretation is that he has no objection to them per se providing that 'sufficient' elasticity can be included in the rode which he considers a significant factor in a rodes overall performance in certain conditions. The introduction of an appropriate length of nylon or polyester in series or parallel will actually improve the performance of the rode in these conditions. logically series makes more sense when anchoring in deeper water to avoid the need to carry (relatively) huge additional weights in smaller craft.

fair?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely fair there Duncan.
The all chain rode discussion is one Alain and I have differing views on, not much different but a little and always in a nice way. To be fair I did slip up in the post and should have made mention I am a great fan of snubbers and highly recommend them to anyone who has an all chain rode. Not using one is silly as you do need some elasticity somewhere in the system. My preference is a nylon 8 braid (Octiplait to you northern types /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif) and not too big a size i.e. using a 20mm rope on 8mm chain will only work once a Force 6 has arrived, I'd use a 14mm on 8mm so it works sooner.

[ QUOTE ]
MerseaMercy
Hi G Mac, another one from New Zealand - or someplace else down under? Don't you people realize this is a British forum?

Your comment above is one of the most interesting I've seen on this thread as it implies you know what you're talking about with respect to all different anchors, which is what this thread is currently lacking.

What is your opinion, in answer to the opening post?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeap another stroppy colonial. Don’t we just keep popping up everywhere /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I like to think I know a few things but are the 1st to say I don’t know it all, far from it. I doubt anyone ever will a bit like the blokes trying to figure out women thing /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
My opinion? I think you quite astutely picked that from what I have fitted to my beasty.

[ QUOTE ]
MerseaMercy
That's interesting. I take it the alloy one is a Spade and the other a Rocna? Manson is the only other NZ company I know of and they make more than one. Or are you deliberately not stating names.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, correct (talking big anchors and a range of, anyway) and Yes. Sadly there sees to be a number of people who once you state a choice pidgeonhole you into one camp. I am also a great believer anchor systems are very very much a horses for courses thing so what works for me may not be the best for the boat next door.

I’m not here to sell anything to anyone but learn just like you. These forums are a gathering of people who use gear I deal with so, to me anyway, another place from which I can learn more on what people want, like, don’t like and how they use whatever. The more I know the more help I can offer my customers so we have a nice win-win (sorry about PC bollix phrase) situation for both. If I can help in a small way at the same time I don’t mind.

[ QUOTE ]
MerseaMercy
I love the way you express yourself! Fantastic.

[/ QUOTE ]
Simple words by a simple chap. I’m known to be one to call a spade a spade (no link to any anchor intended) something that does annoy a few. I’m also one known to like annoying a few from time to time /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif, usually government depts, they do it to me so it only seem fair.

[ QUOTE ]
MerseaMercy
I have a list here. There are several copiers that seem to be big: Davis, Kingston, Lewmar, Fortress, West Marine, so it is true that Manson are not alone.

[/ QUOTE ]
As I understand it – Kingston, Fortress and Manson do actually make anchors themselves. Lewmar sort of does with 2 of theirs, certainly not with at least one. I don’t think Davis and West actually do.

[ QUOTE ]
But would you agree with Craig from Rocna's somewhat veiled implication that the anti-knock-off argument applies to Rocna, something nobody apart from Manson have yet copied?

[/ QUOTE ]
I know I’ll get some ‘feedback’ /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif on this but Alain (I don't regard Bugal as being a 'new' design really but more a recreational copy of one or 2 permanent mooring anchors. Actualy it looks more like a genuine oil rig Bruce than the recreational Bruce we know is ) must be credited for the new theory used in new generation anchors, in my opinion. Rocna has done a great job and come up with another anchor based roughly on that theory. Then the Supreme arrived. Whether the Manson Supreme is a direct knock-off of the Rocna I’ll let others decide. The fact is the Supreme came out after the Rocna from a company who has ‘borrowed’ other designs in the past. Not knocking Manson who very well may have had the Supreme on the drawing board before the Rocna release. Not to mention the point even if Manson has borrowed some ideas they do make a good sound anchor of good quality, better than most in my book. Also if we did not have people borrowing ideas we would all have a very small very highly price range of anything. Imagine what an aircraft hence tickets on it would cost if Richard Pierce, the first man to fly, could have stopped anyone borrowing his ideas. What would have the Wright Brothers done then, just gone fishing? Lets see how many Americans are watching /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
The problem is that as waagener says, it (the Supreme) is cheaper to get here in the UK than the Rocna is, as there's no local Rocna dealer.

[/ QUOTE ]
As Craig mentioned I believe this issue will be shortly sorted out. It’s a big world for 2 kiwi lads to cover without an established network like some others have.

[ QUOTE ]
Ships Cat
How's things in the North?

[/ QUOTE ]
Not to bad I think. Been sitting in the Tasman triangle for the last 8 days, the place where no weather exists only waves and lots of them. Just brought a 60fter back from Brisbane and damn happy it carries a huge pile of fuel and has a big Perkins. 7 odd days of motoring on 6 odd days of fuel to run out 1.5 miles from the Customs dock in Opua…. That damn Murphy’s at it again.

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with you generally (as always) except for the bit about copies always being inferior. World would be in a right going backwards pickle if second tries were always inferior. Certainly some difficulties in quality though with some.

[/ QUOTE ]
True, I suppose ‘copies’ is probably not the correct word. I was meaning more the asain knock-offs really. Mind you there is many CQR, Bruce and a few others non-asian made copies no where near as good as the original. Strangely enough the Delta has many copies which are far superior, the Shark (Norway I think) being just one, which we never hear about. Then again Simpson Lawrence did spend moonbeams on lawyers, at least twice in NZ alone.

[ QUOTE ]
Have you had any feedback on the Supreme (I think the original poster may still be waiting for an answer on that too )? I have not even seen a real one yet down here but maybe when get out and about over summer will do so. I mean real worthwhile feedback not just a claim that it must be best because the owner has it (or even worse made it ) as no anchor is "best" (although, for holding, something along the lines of a 2 tonne block of concrete dropped off the bow does very well).

[/ QUOTE ]
You are a tad behind still down there /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif, they are popping up all over the show. Feedback is generally pretty good. The odd grumble but next to bu**er all. Mind you as you mention, most going to any ‘new generation’ anchor do tend to rave how good they are compared to what they had. Actually can’t think of anyone who has said otherwise. The main comments are along the lines of how well they set. Holding power wise nothing much said. Lloyds have given it a SHHP tag, which we have tried very hard, in vain, to find out what that exactly means. Something about holding 3 times more than a ‘base’ anchor but they won’t say what that anchor is. All surprisingly hush hush really which makes me wonder why. We don’t have any issues with them bar a couple of very very tiny things and maybe in real real soft or loose bottom types but have yet to place it in our ‘where on the good list does it go’, I would be very surprised if it did not make the top 3. We have yet to run it through our test program to see what happens but are planning on doing so next month.

We are pretty sure we have figured a way to get a direct head to head shoot-out between anchors which will give a direct comparison with regards to setting, holding (in that specific bottom type) and what happens when you do a 180 degree shift and go for a re-set. It’ll be a bit like the Olympics with heats, semis and the top 2 making it to the final shoot-out. Should be very interesting. Obviously it is damn near impossible to replicate real life but this should give us each anchors strongest and more importantly their weakest points. Before anyone askes we don't tend to publish our test results as such. Did once and all I got was grumble grumble grumble, strangley only from the poor performers though, it wasn't anchors by the way, chains that time /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

All good stuff really. To all please feel free to correct me if you think I'm out somewhere or you think I'm off in a silly place. We will all learn and that is a very good thing. I promise I can handle negitive comments without biting, I'm quite used to it /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Standard disclaimer - I DO NOT MAKE ANCHORS, I do sell them and make it my business to know as much as I can about them hence I know and have dealings with Alain Spade (used too anyway and happy stress free cruising there now Alain), Craig Rocna, Steve Manson and so on. I do not get paid by, backhanded from, are shagging the sisters of or anything else from any anchor manufacturer. I have my personal choices just like I hope everyone else has and while I may not agree with them I will respect them as we all should.

Sail safe and smile.
 
Thanks for the feedback GMac.

I assume the Lloyds SHHP tag is used just the same as the HHP for getting from the Equipment Number for the vessel to the anchor weight and that weight requirement being less than that for a HHP anchor.

I haven't got a copy of Lloyd's Special Service Craft Rules to check though.

If as windy up North as here the Coastal Classic guys will be having a windy time /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif - but guess calm as usual there.

John
 
Thanks also for your comments GMac.

I think I agree with 99.99 % of them (and I have to think about the remaining 0.01 % :-) )

In fact, we also fully agree about the all chain rode discussion too, as in this case my only restriction is to use a good efficient snubber… Like yourself, I highly recommend them to anyone who has an all chain rode…

Thanks too for your positive comment: “Alain must be credited for the new theory used in new generation anchors”
- This is recognized by Rocna’s designer Peter Smith who wrote “I developed the Rocna after using a Delta… I decided a new general purpose design was needed. I had seen early versions of the Spade at that point, and decided the spoon shaped concave fluke was the way to go…” but not by Graig (I believe!)

“happy stress free cruising there now Alain” Many thanks Gmac and I will always be glad to discuss with you.

Alain

(Another one who is known to call a Spade a Spade (with link to some anchor intended ;-) ) something that does annoy a few.)
 
I am presently living aboard in the Mediterranean and have averaged around 120 nights at anchor in each of the last two years. That doesn't make me an expert - far from it - but it makes me very interested in the subject as my home (with us aboard) lies to anchor in winds up to F8 and on lee shores (can't always be avoided).

Generally, the UK and Mediterranean yachtsman is a marina creature. His anchor is used to stop for lunch or a few hours fishing, and for getting on board when moored bow-to. Very few people (as a percentage) use their anchors in anger and even those who do will invariably take a buoy instead of lying to anchor if there is one available at a price they find acceptable. Anchors are not very reliable and I always take a buoy if the price is right.

So, when I get the chance to talk to others who are circumnavigating, or are non-marina types, I always try to get onto the subject of anchors. From this group, who all have real experience and much to lose from poor anchoring, those who express a preference say that they think the Bugel Anchor is the best. Apart from that, most use a CQR-like anchor themselves, but carry a Danforth/Fortress as a kedge and usually another anchor e.g. a grapnel. Almost all of us use some kind of snubber - I use a length of very light nylon on a chain hook for normal conditions but when bad weather is forecast I shackle on to the chain and run a heavy octoplait line right back to a stern cleat, to give strength and elasticity. The chain is by itself an excellent snubber if there is enough of it out there. Otherwise it snatches terribly and would break the deck cleats if left.

As I have said elsewhere, I now use a Bruce and Danforth in tandem separated by 2m, on the same rode, unless conditions are perfect. This combination is the closest to being on a good mooring buoy that I have ever experienced at anchor.

As yet, I have not met a single user of a new generation anchor so cannot share with you the views of the cruising population round here. If one of these manufacturers would like a bit of field testing next year in the Med, then I would consider doing that for them provided their anchor will stow reasonably easily in place of my present Bruce.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I am presently living aboard in the Mediterranean

[/ QUOTE ]

You lucky bu**er.

[ QUOTE ]
Generally, the UK and Mediterranean yachtsman is a marina creature. His anchor is used to stop for lunch or a few hours fishing, and for getting on board when moored bow-to. Very few people (as a percentage) use their anchors in anger and even those who do will invariably take a buoy instead of lying to anchor if there is one available at a price they find acceptable. Anchors are not very reliable and I always take a buoy if the price is right.

[/ QUOTE ]

That does seem strange to us down here. We have marinas but they are just like the garage at home i.e where you park you boat when you have to go home and slave away for 'The man'. Once you leave the marina is anchor anchor anchor. The very odd spot does have a few buoys but generally most stay clear of them as you don't know what the condition of them is. We have a lot of permenant moorings in places but just picking one up is bad etiquette. Also Murphy will strick and the owner will come back just as you have yourself settled.

[ QUOTE ]
So, when I get the chance to talk to others who are circumnavigating, or are non-marina types, I always try to get onto the subject of anchors. From this group, who all have real experience and much to lose from poor anchoring, those who express a preference say that they think the Bugel Anchor is the best. Apart from that, most use a CQR-like anchor themselves, but carry a Danforth/Fortress as a kedge and usually another anchor e.g. a grapnel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good thinking and also one of my 'things to do'. These are the people who rely on anchors and have a very vested interest. As you mention the anchor subject is popular so much talk takes palce.

It is not too much of a surprise CQRs and the like are still the most popular. CQR has spent truck loads of bucks pushing their product and it is not a bad one so there will always be many fans. The Bugel is a bit similar. I do seriously think that we will see a change over the next while and see a lot more of the new ones around. It will take time but we have noticed an increaseing swing to them over the last couple of years and the speed of the swing is increasing. Mind you we do have all the main contenders very readily available here which does make it a lot easier than other parts of the world.

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As yet, I have not met a single user of a new generation anchor so cannot share with you the views of the cruising population round here. If one of these manufacturers would like a bit of field testing next year in the Med, then I would consider doing that for them provided their anchor will stow reasonably easily in place of my present Bruce.

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As mentioned above I'm sure you'll see more and more as time ticks on.

Come on Anchor makers, you have a good keen subject with a few clues just itching to be converted from the 'Dark side' /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. One little anchor is all wants to become a strong advocate for your product. Note the confidence I have Lemain will be converted and be a lot cheap advert than a magazine in the long run. Worth a thought don't you think?
 
The marina hopping thing is something that had struck me too.

Quite different here as you say. Also, big thing is that is the practice here even though visitors charges in marinas are very, very cheap in comparison (not sure about Auckland area at moment but out of the 7 or so marinas in our main cruising area one would be hard pressed to pay more than the equivalent of around 5 pounds a night for a 40 foot boat with water and electricity included in that).

We expect to spend a total of around 9 weeks away on the boat this summer and not one night of that will be in a marina unless some sort of disaster strikes. Conditions while anchored can be guaranteed to vary from calm to gale force and also likelihood of storm force.

Which I think leads to one of the reasons new generation anchors don't get taken up quickly as if one has had good experiences with ones current system there seems little point or much sense in changing - so move to new maybe driven more by lost anchors (quite rare) and new or major refitted boats (and, of course, those who have inadequate systems/method so still looking for the magic bullet).

Anyway, on the try it side, I would be happy to trial the new Supreme to see how that goes if anyone is offering /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif. However, probably a bit of a waste of time as any adequate system/method will perform well so the outcome, as it would be with most other respected anchors, is a foregone conclusion - it will work fine /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

John
 
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