Anchors don't excite me...

[jonjo]

Anchors don\'t excite me...

... but I have to buy two.

Before I can sail my new boat away from the agent's pontoon berth I have to buy two anchors to meet local safety requirements. What does the panel recommend for a 5.5 ton fin keel yacht that will spend most voyaging nights in a marina or on a buoy.

The design is less beamy and lower in the water than most AWBs. The agent strongly suggested 45m of chain and for some reasoon I ticked the electric windlass box while in a financially careless new-boat frame of mind.

My cruising range will be the Solent to La Rochelle.

Current shopping list is.

Delta 35lb, though S&L suggest the next size down for my displacement.
Spade 15lb alluminium as a lunch time hook.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[dickh]

Re: Anchors don\'t excite me...

Certainly the Spade always gets excellent reviews but they are a bit expensive and I would use it as my main anchor OR a genuine CQR(not a 'plough' anchor). Not sure that Spade make an Aluminium anchor? - do you mean a Fortress? If so a Fortress would be ideal for a lunchtime anchor as it is light and easy to handle.
Certainly get as much chain as you can get in your chain well, and go for as much as will go in, but beware all that weight up forward. You can always use a combination of chain and rope spliced on.
For the bower anchor always go for the next size up for peace of mind.

<hr width=100% size=1>dickh
I'd rather be sailing... /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[Robin]

Re: Anchors don\'t excite me...

A 35lb Delta will be fine, excellent for the area you mentioned and we use that size on 41ft in preference to a 45lb CQR. it sets instantly and has never dragged despite vent solaires up to F6 onshore and F8 offshore in a sheltered bay. On your boat a Fortress would make a good light kedge, we have one as well as a 35lb CQR spare. Go for the chain with your windlass 10mm preferably and 60m would be better. You will need a snubber line to take the load off the winch to a cleat, better still is to fit it with a stretchy rubber mooring compensator as well.

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[Shantyman]

Re: Anchors don\'t excite me...

Your posting gives the impression that you regard the requirement to buy 2 anchors as being somewhat of a nuisance or imposition and that you only need an anchor at night. . . . . . .
The advice from DickH is excellent.
Also you did right to get an electric windlass, but dont let the electric windlass lull you into a false feeling of comfort. Have a "plan B" to recover your anchor if the windlass is hors-de-combat.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jonjo]

Re: Anchors don\'t excite me...

> Certainly the Spade always gets excellent reviews

Have to say the evangelism behind the promotion of the Spade anchor is a turn-off and makes me suspicious. I can confirm that an alu Spade is an option.

"Fortress" that makes two votes already in this thread, I will investigate further.

A CQR was my first thought but following some reading online I now get the impression that the design is scientifically discredited as top heavy and prone to rolling out under a side load due to the articulated shank.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Sgeir]

Re: Anchors don\'t excite me...

Our boat is 5.5 tons and main anchor is 35lb CQR - and never had any problem, apart from dragging over kelp. That was the last time we ever left the fisherman's in the garage!

I'd suggest giving serious consideration to a fairly heavy fisherman's anchor as the anchor of choice for rock and kelp. I'm not aware that any other anchor is suitable under these circumstances.

<hr width=100% size=1>Just another irrelevant footnote.

 

[jonjo]

Re: Anchors don\'t excite me...

> Your posting gives the impression that you regard the requirement to
> buy 2 anchors as being somewhat of a nuisance

The posting does but I definitely regard two anchors a basic requirement for a yacht even for my marina cosseted usage. For example I have resorted to rowing out a kedge to pull myself off a mud bank in Poole harbour.

The nuisance factor is that I have to buy two anchors based on no hands-on usage of the boat and just photo's of the foredeck.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Robin]

Re: Anchors don\'t excite me...

Sorry Jonjo if I gave the impression of not liking CQRs, we used one extensively on our last boat and it was excellent and also never dragged. The Delta we have now was one I wanted to try (the RNLI like it) and we find it sets quicker than the CQR, diving on it, its trail shows it sets in feet as opposed to yards for the CQR. The CQR has one advantage that it's articulated head can be tied to one side in the bow roller, clearing the 2nd roller better for warp usage. I don't put the Spade forward simply because I have no experience of using one, whereas I have used Danforths, Meons, generic ploughs, CQRs, Delta, Fisherman, Brittany and even grapnels over the years.

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[Rich_F]

Re: Anchors don\'t excite me...

Don't write off the Spade just because of the evangelism!

My experience of the Spade is that I've anchored around 30 to 40 times, on the Scottish west coast, mainly in the abysmal, windy weather that passed for July this year. It always set first time, and it never dragged (unlike several boats anchored near us).

However, I did overspec it somewhat; a steel model 80 plus 50m of 10mm chain on a 29 footer.

<hr width=100% size=1>Rich

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.marineinteriors.co.uk>Marine Interiors - Beautiful Marine Upholstery</A>

 

[jonjo]

Re: Plumb bow problems

Thanks Robin I had not considered how to take load off the windlass. Unfortunately the racing pretensions of the Match 35 mean the deck lacks a central cleat or post. The windlass occupies a below deck position on a plinth within the anchor locker.

The near 90 degree plumb bow of the Match design is going to be vulnerable while bring the hook onboard. One interesting feature is that the single bow roller is a slot-in fitment and is interchangeable with a bow loop to accommodate bowsprit pole.

Ok so all this probably sounds quite Mickey Mouse for serious cruising but it does raise the possibility of me getting a new bow fitment fabricated with enough of an overhang to keep the pointy bits of an anchor clear of the bow gel coat.

I suppose the flukes of a Bruce point back less than a plough type anchor when in a bow roller stowed position?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[wagenaar]

Re: Anchors don\'t excite me...

On my 5,5 ton boat I had a CQR, which dragged once in Denmark, but functioned OK on all other occasions, Baltic, France, Med. I used a Fortress as a kedge, which worked most of the times OK, but also dragged a number of times in the Med. Strictly on the basis of mechanics I would not use an all chain anchor-rode, but 10 meters of chain, spliced onto 50 or 60 meters of nylon-line. The nylon accomodates variable forces much better than an all-chain rode. It also will be much easier to handle, because it weights much less than the chain. The 10 meter of chain are mainly to protect against wear and damage on the sea-floor (rocks etc.)

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Becky]

Re: Anchors don\'t excite me...

Spade anchors certainly come in aluminium form, and stainless steel as well but they cost a bomb. 'They say' because the stainless ones are so polished they slip into the bottom more easily. What do you all think about the RYA having dropped anchoring from the YM sylabus.


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[trouville]

Re: Anchors don\'t excite me...

Buy a Danforth or Brittany 25LBS or CQR 25LBS better a Danforth 35LBS and 25 CQR as second. Indeed the advice of 35 meters 8mm chains first class! i use 40 meters on my Danforth its never dragged even in bad holding where other boats have enden up on the beach--though such conditions are very bad for the nerves. I have a 12 ton (40foot) Hillyard
For the CQR i have 35 meters chain and 50 meters 18mm rope just in case its needed! Very rarly have i used the second and third anchor as its a lot of work to lay them and get them back in, But some times its a releaf to have them!!
Remember if you lay a 35LBS with 30 meters out you can add the second chain and lay 65meters from the 75 meters as a rule thats enough The CQRsgreat but difficult to handle and the danforth holds as well or better in sand/mud
Only in Isola Capraia nothing held in the weed not even my 45LBS fisherman I dragged untill i snagged!! but in the afternoon i left--better go in and risk paying It wasent so expensive at all!! OH and i was in 24meters Its quite deep near in

<hr width=100% size=1>liveaboard

 

[Robin]

Re: Plumb bow problems

We don't have a central foredeck cleat either and the windlass is in the anchor locker. We take the snubber line (14mm nylon with a S/S chain hook, rubber compensator and some anti-chafe tube) over the 2nd bow roller (it could be through a foredeck fairlead) to the bow cleats on one side.

Your straight stem is a target for chipping with the pick! If there is room to bring it on board and stow it in the anchor locker the Delta adapts to that with a line snapshackled on the trip eye that can be tied back on the chain shackle to use as a handle. Otherwise whatever you use will need some kind of forward poking roller/support to hold it clear, especially when raising anchor. A Bruce looks 'bow hugging shape but it doesn't come up like that and will still chip a straight stem, though it might stow there, you needs some cardboard mockups to play with!

There's a new Bav Match at our club so if I remember I'll have a look see next time I'm down.

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Plumb bow problems

>>We don't have a central foredeck cleat either and the windlass is in the anchor locker. We take the snubber line (14mm nylon with a S/S chain hook, rubber compensator and some anti-chafe tube) over the 2nd bow roller (it could be through a foredeck fairlead) to the bow cleats on one side.<<

I'm just finalising my plans and was wondering about using a chain hook instead of hitching a warp onto the chain. Have you ever had any problems with the chain jumping out of the hook? As for the size of the nylon, the weight (i.e. mass) of my boat is around 17 tonnes, and we are a beamy 42'. I was thinking of using 14mm myself, to get some good stretch. What length of nylon do you use from the chain hook to the bow roller? I note that you also use a rubber compensator and I intend to do the same.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Robin]

Re: Plumb bow problems

The chain hook sits fairly snugly between adjacent links. We hook onto the chain on deck then pass the line round the forestay to the cleat but keep some light tension on it by hand to keep the hook in place, then let out more chain and ease the snubber line out at the same time until it is taught on the cleat, then let out more chain to hang in a loop below the hook. The weight of the chain holds it in place and it has never come out when in use, although it occasionally does whilst setting it up. At one time we did use S/S luff hooks but managed to straighten one despite the rubber compensator when a vicious vent solaire caught us out off Isle De Houat, F6 with big waves rolling in. We actually have 2 snubber lines, our standard one and a heavy weather one with a stiffer compensator, rarely used at anchor but we have used BOTH on the bow in exposed marina berths like in La Trinite this August. I have used stretchy snubbers for 30 years, originally made up from multiple lengths of shock cord lashed across a loop in the snubber line, now they make the rubber sausage bone shaped ones that the line coils round, more coils = more stretchy. The difference is amazing, all the noise and snatch is gone and there is much less strain on either the anchor or the cleats. I usually let out enough line at anchor so that the snubber sits clear of the bow but out of the water but the overall line length depends on where your cleats are, ours are quite a way back to clear the anchor well. I would err on the side of longer, if only for the secondary use as bow line snubbers.

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[snowleopard]

chain hooks

on my cat i let out the required cable less 10m, then attach a nylon bridle and ease away till the bridle takes the strain. i bought a chain hook for when i needed to attach the bridle to the chain (the rode is 23m chain+ 80m rope). the hook came adrift every time i used it so now i always run out all the chain and put a rolling hitch on the rope. on the rare occasions i've needed to restrict the swing in shallow water i've used the rolling hitch on the chain and never had a problem.

if you want to use a hook i'd go for the double-claw type rather than the hook-shaped one.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[charles_reed]

Marina Grande

if you go west of the corner of the entrance breakwater there is reasonable holding on sand with a little weed in about 8-11m. It's usually full during the season and all the cruise liners and superyachts make a row in the small hours just farther out.

Marina Piccolo is very steep to - in fact Capri is awful for anchorages and inside the marina, if any room, compares with the UK S coast in being very expensive.

In most cases I can't support your preference for the Danforth/Brittany, because most Med sand is too hard for them to dig in - salerno however is great, lovely mud.

My 2 kedges (Danforth 7 kg and Delta 7 kg) are on 25m chain and 50 m warp, but on my 25 lb CQR I use 65m chain and 50m warp.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[charles_reed]

Suggestion Re: Plumb bow problems

I had exactly the same problem as you have and got over it by replacing the single roller with a swinging tandem bridge out of a proprietary self-stowing bow fitment.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[charles_reed]

Re: chain hooks aren\'t safe

I tried using them, OK in easy conditions, but as soon as it got lively the straightened sufficiently to come out.

You're limited as to the od of the hook by the space beween two links and this is never sufficient to take a real load.

Like snowleopard I now use a clove-hitch round the chain (in 12mm nylon), back to the two foredaeck cleats

<hr width=100% size=1>