anchor winch electrics

[pcatterall]

I posted on this a couple of months ago. Thanks for the advice then, I have at last got to this job on my list and would just like to confirm that I am doing it right!!
My old foot switch corroded away. The winch wiring tails are quite substantial, the lead from the batteries is very substantial, the leads on the new Lofrans switch are very small diam. when I tried the switch the wires became hot just running a few feet of cable through the winch. I was then advised that there should be a relay in the set up. I remembered (and found) a little square device (about 5x5x1cm with two terminals) which had been in the previous set up. Is this the wonderfull relay? and if I fit it will it stop the cables from frying??
One bit of previous advice was that a solanoid should be fitted,
There was not one on the original set up but I can see how this could be employed, I guess that I could even use one from a car?
Regards to all.

 

[Channel Ribs]

The relay and solenoid will be the same jobbies, you need to connect the switch to the box and let that take all the strain.

If you have a poke around the internet you should be able to turn up a wiring diagram..

 

[Graham_Wright]

On my Lofrans winch, I found that the terminals were so close together that I couldn't attach decent sized cables. I extended the centre one with a brass tapped bush to lift it clear of its mates. You certainly need a solenoid.

 

[William_H]

It is most likely that if the new switch has light wires connecting to it then it is only made for light currents. So you need a relay /solenoid same thing different name in this case. (The name solenoid refers to an electromagnet that when powered actuates something. But historically tended to refer to the magnet actuating a switch. ie a relay)
Now a relay should have 4 terminals. that is 2 for the coil and 2 for the make contacts. Often the contacts have 3 terminals ie one contact that connects to another when power is applied and another where it rests when power is off the coil. To confuse things there are sometimes multiple individual switch contacts. (poles) I have a relay made for a starter which handles high current. The switch contacts are really heavy while the coil contacts are quite small.
Now in the case of an anchor winch there should be 2 relays one for up and one for down. The connection to the motor being reversed or a different field winding being connected.

The power from the battery is connected to the switch contact terminal and possibly also to one coil terminal. The remaining contact terminal goes to the winch while the remaining coil terminal goes to the switch then either to +ve or -ve depending on where the other coil terminal goes. For a winch with 2 field coil windings this is duplicated for the other direction of motion.
One relay contact to each field winding wire.

If the winch is one where the power is reversed to the motor to reverse the motion it gets tricky. This is usual for permanent magnet motors. You will need relays with the 3 contact terminals (one connected at rest no power) The winch power wires connect to the moving contact of each relay (one wire to each relay). The negaive can be connected to both rest (NC normally connected) contacts of both relays. The positive is connected to both relays contacts normally open (NO).
So when one relay is activated the wire to the motor is connected to the +ve while the other motor wire connects to negative via the contacts of the relay not activated to negative. Up she goes!
When that relay is deactivated and the other relay activated the reverse happens the positive goes to the other motor terminal up. Down she goes!

If you only get relays with make contact as in a starter relay then you need 4 relays. 2 become up relays both coils activated when the switch goes to up position. One contact of one relay goes to +ve the corresponding contact on the other relay goes to negative the other contacts go to each motor input wire.
Similarly the motor wires must go to termianls of the other 2 relays doubled up of course the other terminals again going to + and - ve.

The starter relays are really good for marine in that they have huge contacts and are hematically sealed to exclude moisure.
good luck I hope this sory on connections makes sense to you and others. olewill (at it again)

 

[Brian_Moffat]

... and the wires got hot? ... I'll just bet they did.

The little wires from the switch - go in the opposite direction to the winch/windlass - never go near it - do not pass go - and do not collect 200 AMPERES!

The little square box with two terminals on it probably belongs to another boat (or at least to something else) - if it was a relay it would have 4 terminals on it ( 2 for the coil and two damned great big ones for the battery/winch cables )

Yes you should have a relay otherwise it's not going to work. (Technically called a 'contactor' because you can always hear the contacts clattering in from the other end of the boat - they are so Heavy Duty)

When you buy the relay there is always a little schematic diagram - either on the outside of the box or inside the box but
I assume from the fact that you only have one switch that you only use the electrics in the one direction (presumably upwards)

You could probably get away with using an engine start contactor of 450 Amperes current capacity or so - as long as it is rated CONTINUOUS - and not for use for 30 seconds within any 3 minute period - which knocks the car idea on the head.

You should really have someone take a look at it.

Problem solved.

PS - make sure you know if you are 12 or 24 Volts and tell the shop - HOW MANY BIG WIRES ARE COMING FROM THE WINCH?

Is it 2? or 3? or 4?

regards - Brian

 

[pcatterall]

Thanks to you all for your comments.
Just not sure of the point about not going near the switch leads, on the original set up(which worked) they were in line as part of the circuit. I will obviously have to get a solonoid switch and take the point that a car starter solonoid may not handle contiuous load.
The little box jobby was definatly part of the original circuit, just guessing that it may have been some sort of thermal cut out??
Thanks again.

 

[Brian_Moffat]

If those wires were in the original BATtery circuit - it must be a very small winch. I'm sorry but it just doesn't happen!

A thermal cut-out will always be internal to the winch/windlass motor and not hanging around somewhere else - so I'm sorry I can't answer that one, but I can't think of anything with two contacts which should be in that circuit - other than (of course) - a switch - and even then it will not be in-line with the motor.

regards

brian