Anchor well question

Malabarista

Malabarista

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Hi
As i received such good advice the last time i posed a question here i thought i would try again.
The anchor well on Border Collie has been leaking into the bilges. Rainwater at the moment but i suspect that seawater has also played a part. Several attempts at sealing the join between the 'bathtub' insert and the deck moulding have been made in the past using all kinds of gunk. However this i am confident i can deal with. There has been what appears to be buckling in the thin edge of the deck moulding and the hatch cover is prominently bowed. I have taken the bathtub out and in the process discovered that there are no fewer than five separate layers of non original fibreglass layups around the short piece of drain hose. I had to cut out a 5" thick volcano shaped lump of fibreglass to remove it. This looks and feels to be immensely strong. I feel sure that as the original design allowed for the removal of the anchor well that the intention was for the whole thing to be suspended from its lip with loads of little bolts. Is it likely that the hull flexing has tranferred this energy up into the seal bed and therefore no matter what is used to seal it will fail?
Inside all the fibreglass around the drain is a rubber hose which i presume is the original one. This would have damped the forces and made the anchor well tub more flexible. Apologies if this is a daft one but when i replace it i would like to do as good a job as i can.
 
Malabarista,

what sort of boat please ?

On my Anderson 22 an anchor well is standard; it's glassed in with a hinged grp lid ( slightly bowed to suit the deck camber ) on top, and simply drains via a hole in the side well above the waterline.

One snag I discovered the hard way on our first season is, one needs to restrain the anchor - or if punching into head seas it can try to escape through the sides, creating star cracks.

So since then the anchor sits in a soft malleable zinc alloy tray hand shaped to suit the well, and the anchor has a quickly appliable ( in case it's dark ) elastic tie to hold it.

One advantage of anchor wells I've not seen mentioned often is that they make excellent ' dorade boxes ' for ventilators into the forecabin; I have a screw type ventilator and a completely removable dinghy inspection hatch to let air into the forepeak, and a scoop type ventilator in the anchor well lid, this arrangement works well.

However being a disciple of Sod's Law I keep 2 shut off lids for the inspection hatch and the scoop vent ( one real + a spare ) in a holder nearby, as beating into a serious head sea without these doesn't bear thinking about, wet duvet at least !

I also painted the seat of each vent the traditional warning yellow & black stripes to show if they're uncovered before going to sea, and the ' bow caps ' are a primary briefing point for any new crew unfamiliar with the boat, and for that matter my own checklist.

Still they work well as vents and like in weather like the UK now are nigh on indespinsable.
 
Not so very ancient, and a nice boat !

I'm sure you're way ahead of me, but if you could bond the ' bathtub / shower tray ' into the boat as well as possible and do without the tube drain, just a hole each side of the bow - on mine they're less than a centimetre but the well has never looked like flooding even during some stiff seas - you'd be doing yourself a favour...

( Edit - meant to say I'd use WEST around the holes, maybe short stainless tubes bonded in, not just bare grp ).

One thing about wells is that one has to take the time at some point asap to flake down the warp & chain ( or maybe just chain in your case ) so as to readily pay out when required, with the anchor secured at or near the top.

You'll probably remember on some 1970's boats like the Seal 28 there was just a deep foredeck foot well with the anchor & chain, no lid, so the foredeck bod felt more secure standing in it - but it must have carried a fair weight of water in head seas, and no Plan B lid to stop the anchor self deploying with interesting results !
 
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Hi Seajet
I have probably confused matters by incorrect terminology. BC has a hinged lid with a well beneath it. The anchor ( what's left of it ) sits inside this well. The chain and rode disappears into a separate chain locker via a hawse hole aft of the windlass and much lower in the boat. In fact below the forepeak berth. My question is do you think that the rigidity caused by the non original stiffening/leak fixing/volcano is causing the sides of the hatch to flex beyond design parameters? If so can i just strap a rubber gaiter to the 'lower slopes' and upper drain and seal this arrangement? Thus allowing the well to flex as part of the deck and not be trying to drag the hull flex with it. Rereading theough what i have written definitely qualifies me for semi moron status. I blame the paint/heat/state of tiredness…
 
I have been asking around and it appears that as there will be very little flex/movement at this part of the boat the question i originally posted is irrelevant. I am still struggling with the notion that a piece of the boat which must be removable to access the stemhead fittings etc would require cutting out ( in a very tight spot) each time. Although it would account for the multiple fibreglass layers. The seal which was leaking must also be accessible one would think or why would it exist?
I'm just �� confused.
 
I'm confused too.

If the boat has good foredeck fairleads and cleats / posts with substantial backing plates, they shouldn't need regular access, but maybe something like a strong inspection hatch for checks now and again would be ideal.

The tray under the anchor lid HAS to be securely bonded to the hull, but shouldn't be a structural component, just not a source of leaks around the edges.

If the chain goes down lower via the ' volcano tube ' you mention, seawater is bound to leak in, so I'd guess there are meant to be limber hole drains to an auto bilge pump ?

Best check the condition of the anchor, chain, windlass ( inc electrics to it if applicaple ) & auto bilge pump/s ASAP.

Edit; this would also be a good time to lay out the anchor chain on a pontoon - new chain & anchor possibly by the sound of it - and mark the chain in metres, fathoms, whatever suits you with white paint stripes or ty wrap cable ties ( you can feel and count them in the dark ) - or it might be 10' of chain with a note on the end saying " Ha Ha ! "
 
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I'm not at my best either - and did not understand most of what you described, but don't get upset. I'd agree with Seajet, take the opportunity and empty all the bow lockers you describe - take all the chain out, lay it out, wash it and mark it. But then check the chain locker - surely it should drain through a drain hole out of the hull, rather than into the bilges. If it drains into the bilges your bilges would quickly get very manky (if you anchor in mud). Wash out the chain locker and find out what's down at the bottom.

I'd also agree with Roger's advise, check the Moody Owners website - or post some pictures, then the words might make more sense. The advise on here is exceptional - but we need some help developing the advise!

Chain and anchor lockers on most yachts appear to be an afterthought - many are truly dreadful.
 
Hi thanks for all the input
IMG_7352.jpg.
This ( hopefully) shows the drain hole from the anchor well to the drainhole drilled into the hull. The 'bathtub' well sits inside this space and rests on the lip around the deck. My possibly non problem is that it also sits ( and was fibreglassed to) the drainhole. I think that as this would make it impossible without cutting ( as i did) to remove/check/replace the seal between the deck and the lip of the well it is not original . I also believe that original design used a short length of rubber hose to make this connection as i can see the remains of it inside the sawn off piece. My question now is do i reglass it into place or reinstate the hose and double jubilee it?
This well just contains the anchor as the chain comes in through a hawse hole aft of the windlass and is kept in a locker much lower in the boat ( good) but which drains into the bilge ( bad). Any suggestions welcome. Thanks again
 
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Thanks for the link Neeves. The clamshell looks good as does the idea of drilling two new holes in the chain locker. Unfortunately as it is below the waterline it may well result in a question about bilge pumps and we wouldn't want that would we?
I will post some more photos tomorrow to try and show the whole setup but after a day/night of wrestling with headliners i am pooped and ready for my bunk.
 
It depends how much space you have but a new false bottom might be a thought, with a sloping bottom so that it drains toward the new drain holes.

As I mentioned chain/anchor lockers seem to be an afterthought. I see lots of appalling versions in new yachts - you are not alone.

But you do not want to allow the chain to lie in stagnant, salt, water and unless drain holes are big they can block. No-one deploys all their chain on a regular basis so you simply do not know what is lurking down their in the depths and gloom. So having the chain sitting on a grating can be a good idea.

But its also a good idea to get all the chain out whenever you can and have time to ensure the drain hole, whether to the sea or bilge, is not blocked. If you drain to the sea its a also a good idea to keep the locker lid open when at anchor, if its raining you wash the chain, marginally, and if its dry it helps, marginally, for the locker and contents to dry out.

But returning to your problem - do you really need the bathtub and/or can you not devise another means to achieve the same end, a partition, vertically? Build a lip, flange, right round the locker, at the appropriate height, introduce a heavy duty (try Locker) grating as a, lift out, false floor. They use plastic gratings for pontoon decks in marinas, in butchers - lots of applications, so lots of sources - they can be load bearing (the Locker ones are).

As an aside - anchor/chain lockers can be quite big, especially on cats, and often are subject to water breaking over them, even on cats. Potentially they can fill with water, and do (I know of 2 cases, not us), but the drain holes, usually singular, are tiny. The issue received a lot of attention for cockpits - but anchor lockers appear to have escaped - though I stand to be corrected.

Jonathan



Jonathan
 
We have a Trintella 44. The anchor chain locker is located under the bow locker. This puts it below the water line so drainage cannot be into the sea. Our boat was designed with a pipe from the bottom of the chain locker to the main bilge sump. It works well until we get mud on the chain. We have access to the pipe under the front sail lockers under the forepeak. We have installed a s/s filter 600mm down the pipe so we can disconnect the pipe and clear any blockage. We do this routinely at the end of each season when we get our chain out to wash the salt off and rinse the chain locker.
We have also added a similar set up at the aft end of the boat to drain the lazerate in to the main sump. It stop manky water running through the bilges and gives us just one central sump in the middle of the boat to keep clean. The rest of the bilges are nice and dry
 
Thanks Jonathan
Sometimes i just think too small. I will do some BIG thinking about the problem. Do i really need this anchor locker at all? There is a large double roller and stemhead plate up the sharp end which may like to house the anchor and would only really need to be unshipped and stowed when on a really long passage. If i then sealed the whole shebang with fibreglass it would allow for more more storage below.
 
Geem you are a genius. I had not thought of piping it and ( rather handily) there is a spigot at the limber hole from the chain locker. Aft and slightly lower than the spigot is a seacock which carries the waste from the forward heads sink. i could maybe put a Y junction on the pipe and carry it straight out to sea. The filter idea is great. I am thoroughly enthused and can't wait to get started on it. Once again my invisible friends have come up trumps. What a wonderful forum this is.
 
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