Copious
Well-Known Member
Is there any harm in shackling the anchor directly onto chain or is a swivel/connector required?
Copious
Copious
Anchor swivels and connectors
- Thread starter Copious
- Start date
Talbot
Well-Known Member
Some people swear by them, some lose their boats cause they part. personally I dont have one.
If you do want one, then make sure you buy a good one rather than those advertised on ebay.
If you do want one, then make sure you buy a good one rather than those advertised on ebay.
Dipper
Well-Known Member
Mine's shackled with the pin moused.
Many people distrust swivels. I don't use a swivel or connector because I haven't seen any that allow you to secure the pin properly eg by mousing. Shackles obviously aren't as streamlined as connectors so they could jam in the cheeks of the roller especially if you are using a windlass.
Many people distrust swivels. I don't use a swivel or connector because I haven't seen any that allow you to secure the pin properly eg by mousing. Shackles obviously aren't as streamlined as connectors so they could jam in the cheeks of the roller especially if you are using a windlass.
duncan
Well-Known Member
having to use either a d shackle or a connector to clear the roller sider I am unable to mouse anyway so it's the firm threadlock and or a smack with a punch for the D.
both have worked fine but I was as careful as I could be to get a well enginnered swivel connector rather than a cheap one.
I am however a small'ish boat
both have worked fine but I was as careful as I could be to get a well enginnered swivel connector rather than a cheap one.
I am however a small'ish boat
Swagman
Well-Known Member
There was an interesting article in a recent IPC sailing mag (sorry can't recall which) on relative strenghts of shackles / swivels etc.
Well worth reading.
JOHN
Well worth reading.
JOHN
duncan
Well-Known Member
yep - and an excellent thread in the PBO forum early in the year too with lots of detail comparing some of the US sourced products with certain well known catelogue products!
boatmike
Well-Known Member
Technically a swivel is not required and serves no useful purpose unless you are going to be at anchor for a long time with the boat sailing round and around the anchor. Most people use them to avoid a shackle jamming in their stemhead roller. If this is not a problem for you you don't need one. If you do get one make sure it is from a reputable manufacturer and made from wrought, not cast material. There was a survey of the things in Yachting Monthly (I think) recently and their tests showed very much lower breaking loads than the manufacturers claimed. I have two anchors on my boat. One is a regular use, "lunch hook" with a swivel so it clears the roller and stows easily using an electric windlass. The other is twice the size and used as a "storm anchor" when the going is tough depoyed on a big old manual SL 55 windlass. No swivel on that one!
Salty John
Well-Known Member
There have been some horror stories about swivels and I agree with most other posters that they are not necessary. So, a good bow shackle suitably moused is a good choice if your anchor roller will allow it through. Otherwise a d-shackle should do.
wizard
Well-Known Member
IMHO you do not need a swivel
Galvanised shackle moused with galvanised wire is the way to go
NB Stainless steel swivels and galvanised chain/anchor will lead to certain corrosion problems between the two - and ultimate failure if left joined!
Galvanised shackle moused with galvanised wire is the way to go
NB Stainless steel swivels and galvanised chain/anchor will lead to certain corrosion problems between the two - and ultimate failure if left joined!
S
Skyva_2
Guest
Is there any harm? - no! Keep it simple with a shackle.
GMac
Well-Known Member
Swivels generally are not needed but in some cases can save you lots of money.
Forget about the stainless swivels eating out galvanised chain on your ANCHOR rode, this is a crock of *you know what* . If your anchored continuously for a few weeks you 'may' have some galv loss. I've heard this so many times and each time I ask "more details please" and the answer always is "Oh a mate told me he heard it from someone else".
On a permanent mooring DO NOT mix stainless with steel. Actually DON'T use stainless at all.
Running all chain don't bother with a swivel. Running a Rope spliced direct onto chain rode using octiplait don't worry about a swivel. If your rode is a laid rope (3 strand) and is spliced direct onto the chain consider a swivel, especailly if anchoring in deep water. The swivel can stop your rode twisting to the point the rope unlays and the splice falls out. This is where the money saving bit comes in.
A good swivel is stronger than most shackles in use. Most of the shackles you are using are banged out of china by the millions and are far from top end quality.
If you want a swivel choose carefully.
16mm with a listed break load 10800kg, this is what it looks like after 4000kg has been applied. Bet ya 12 cold beers it would not get to 4500kg.
16mm with a design load of 24000kg. This is what it looks like after 11000kg has been applied.
The smallest one in the photo below has never broken below 4100kg and is for upto 8mm chain, our published load is 3200kg which is the same as 8mm chain. Bet ya big bucks the shackles you have on your 8mm chain will break well below that. Not that I've actually done it but the number say the 6, 7 and 8mm chain for this swivel will all break first as well.
Note: there are a few swivels that 'look' like these out there. As a swivel does what a swivel does they do all look similar, sort of like a car, no matter which one, usually has to have 4 wheels. Whether the look alike gets the same loads as these do, I don't know.
I saved the real spooky bit to last. 99% of galv shackles come out of china on mass. You don't want to know how strong they are but I'm going to tell you anyway to set the record a bit straighter. A std 8mm hot dipped galv shackle has a WLL of 250kg, a 16mm around 800kg. Assuming a 10:1 safety margin (and it would be well lower actually) we get break loads of 2500kg and 8000kg respectivly. 8mm DIN766'A short link chain made in Italy (i.e. good stuff) break at 3200kg, 16mm 13000kg odd.
Make one think some swivels should be used for safety reasons alone. Don't panic though, you are not getting anywhere close to the loads you think you are on your rode. It is common for most to seriously over estimate the loads.
Finally - not all manufacturers just bang stuff out with no regard to the end user, please don't tar us all with the same brush. Some of us do actually care about your safety. Damn hard to get repeat sales if I've killed you with dodgy gear /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Forget about the stainless swivels eating out galvanised chain on your ANCHOR rode, this is a crock of *you know what* . If your anchored continuously for a few weeks you 'may' have some galv loss. I've heard this so many times and each time I ask "more details please" and the answer always is "Oh a mate told me he heard it from someone else".
On a permanent mooring DO NOT mix stainless with steel. Actually DON'T use stainless at all.
Running all chain don't bother with a swivel. Running a Rope spliced direct onto chain rode using octiplait don't worry about a swivel. If your rode is a laid rope (3 strand) and is spliced direct onto the chain consider a swivel, especailly if anchoring in deep water. The swivel can stop your rode twisting to the point the rope unlays and the splice falls out. This is where the money saving bit comes in.
A good swivel is stronger than most shackles in use. Most of the shackles you are using are banged out of china by the millions and are far from top end quality.
If you want a swivel choose carefully.
16mm with a listed break load 10800kg, this is what it looks like after 4000kg has been applied. Bet ya 12 cold beers it would not get to 4500kg.
16mm with a design load of 24000kg. This is what it looks like after 11000kg has been applied.
The smallest one in the photo below has never broken below 4100kg and is for upto 8mm chain, our published load is 3200kg which is the same as 8mm chain. Bet ya big bucks the shackles you have on your 8mm chain will break well below that. Not that I've actually done it but the number say the 6, 7 and 8mm chain for this swivel will all break first as well.
Note: there are a few swivels that 'look' like these out there. As a swivel does what a swivel does they do all look similar, sort of like a car, no matter which one, usually has to have 4 wheels. Whether the look alike gets the same loads as these do, I don't know.
I saved the real spooky bit to last. 99% of galv shackles come out of china on mass. You don't want to know how strong they are but I'm going to tell you anyway to set the record a bit straighter. A std 8mm hot dipped galv shackle has a WLL of 250kg, a 16mm around 800kg. Assuming a 10:1 safety margin (and it would be well lower actually) we get break loads of 2500kg and 8000kg respectivly. 8mm DIN766'A short link chain made in Italy (i.e. good stuff) break at 3200kg, 16mm 13000kg odd.
Make one think some swivels should be used for safety reasons alone. Don't panic though, you are not getting anywhere close to the loads you think you are on your rode. It is common for most to seriously over estimate the loads.
Finally - not all manufacturers just bang stuff out with no regard to the end user, please don't tar us all with the same brush. Some of us do actually care about your safety. Damn hard to get repeat sales if I've killed you with dodgy gear /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Dipper
Well-Known Member
Those stainless steel swivels look good quality. Are they Italian? I believe the RNLI have very similar ones fitted to their inshore lifeboats.
My main worry is how do you secure the pins to stop them winding out? For several years, I have had a non-swivelling connector kept in the garage because I am too concerned about the pins coming undone.
My main worry is how do you secure the pins to stop them winding out? For several years, I have had a non-swivelling connector kept in the garage because I am too concerned about the pins coming undone.
GMac
Well-Known Member
The second from the right is a Kong out of Italy, good spotting. This will shortly be replaced with a slightly smaller version of the big beast and will be NZ made.
The big beast is NZ made and the 4 smaller ones are made to our specs in Japan.
The big beast has grub screws and so on, you can see the hole in the end of the top pin.
The 4 small ones are designed so that when you do the big pin up tight it pulls the cheeks in a tad and puts a big load on so they don't come out. For extra security you can just give the thread end of the pins a whack with a centrepunch and they'll stay very well put.
Part of our testing is doing cyclic load tests. Put it on a machine and it gets loaded then unloaded then loaded agian and so on. This is to see if the pins work loose and an accelerated way of checking on wear and so on. One came off the machine a few weeks back after 5000 cycles, nothing happened, which is perfect. Not to mention over 3000 sold and only one grizzle, "It just fell off" in zero wind after being at anchor for 3 days. Story does not stack up too well and we still don't know what really happened. But at only 1 suspect in 3000 we are pretty happy.
The big Kong you just do up very tight, chuck some Loktite type stuff in if you like.
The big beast is NZ made and the 4 smaller ones are made to our specs in Japan.
The big beast has grub screws and so on, you can see the hole in the end of the top pin.
The 4 small ones are designed so that when you do the big pin up tight it pulls the cheeks in a tad and puts a big load on so they don't come out. For extra security you can just give the thread end of the pins a whack with a centrepunch and they'll stay very well put.
Part of our testing is doing cyclic load tests. Put it on a machine and it gets loaded then unloaded then loaded agian and so on. This is to see if the pins work loose and an accelerated way of checking on wear and so on. One came off the machine a few weeks back after 5000 cycles, nothing happened, which is perfect. Not to mention over 3000 sold and only one grizzle, "It just fell off" in zero wind after being at anchor for 3 days. Story does not stack up too well and we still don't know what really happened. But at only 1 suspect in 3000 we are pretty happy.
The big Kong you just do up very tight, chuck some Loktite type stuff in if you like.
Copious
Well-Known Member
Thank you all, very informative and much appreciated,
Copious
Copious
