Anchor size.....advice

[Birdseye]

Racing rules can be altered in the SIs for any race. Its not uncommon to have the rule about "no anchors at the bow particularly in inshore racing where there may be contact, and its all about avoiding or minimising damage and injury. Its difficult to imagine a situation where the extra delay in getting the anchor out of a bow locker makes the difference between safety or not.

 

[lw395]

Would a light aloominum anchor have the weight to sink 220m of buoyant polyprop rope? I could imagine the situation where the anchor sank to a certain depth and then was held afloat by the buoyancy of the rope above it.

As they say. 'do the math'!
Or try it.

You want a bit of light chain anyway for chafe resistance.

 

[Neeves]

Ok thanks all
Have opened my wallet and ordered a fortress (made of gold judging by the price)
The annoying thing, is the bow rollers still protrude out and would do some damage in a collision. Anyway rules are rules!

I've been away otherwise I might have commented earlier - but I would have taken all the chain out of the locker and left it on the quay side, along with anything else that is not required (such as the 25kg steel anchor) - as has been mentioned its not only weight but weight in the bow.

Your choice of the Fortress is sound, it is the same design as carried on all the Volvos and Vendee Globe (though hopefully yours is a bit smaller). I thought ISAF dictated the size of anchor to be carried and also dictated the length of rode and amount of chain - size (and numbers of anchors) is not a decision left to owners.

Anchors are meant to be instantly available - so a Fortress should be assembled.

Just out of interest - what size of Fortress did you invest in (it will serve you well as a second anchor - and will be more effective than the 5kg model you already have!)

Hoping you did well the the regatta.

Jonathan

 

[harstonwood]

We got the fortress 1 size down from that recommended as a primary anchor. It certainly looks up to the job
We came 3 before discards, final achieving 4/14 so very pleasing
Was great fun.

 

[Neeves]

I suspect you might have an FX 16 which you will find satisfactory even as a primary, though a FX 23 would have been the recommended size? I also suspect that the FX 16 would meet ISAFs demands for an anchor for a 40' yacht - but I'm just guessing, ISAF appear to accept slight smaller sizes than might be used on a cruising yacht.

The Volvos carry 2 x FX 85s which are monsters and on the Vendee Globe carry 2 x FX 55's. The Volvos used theirs to stem tides in the last and previous race and in the Vendee they were used when stopping to effect repairs (in the last 2 races). So they are carried as serious bits of kit and are used. Fortress appear to be standard bits of kit.

I do not think your will be disappointed with your investment - so easy to dinghy out (or throw - in desperation!) We use ours, a FX-23 regularly.

A 4th is a good result. But dumping all the unnecessary stuff, especially the chain in the bow, water in the tanks (and that steel anchor) etc can have an amazing impact.

Glad you enjoyed it!

Jonathan

 

[roblpm]

So as a numpty novice trying to improve our position in our handicap fleet from about 10/15 to top half next season is it worth moving / changing the 10 kg spade and 30m of chain out of our anchor locker? I think the total weight is about 50kg on a 2500kg 28ft boat?

What would I do instead?

 

[Neeves]

So as a numpty novice trying to improve our position in our handicap fleet from about 10/15 to top half next season is it worth moving / changing the 10 kg spade and 30m of chain out of our anchor locker? I think the total weight is about 50kg on a 2500kg 28ft boat?

What would I do instead?

Image having someone slightly underweight, say 50kg, standing on your bow all the time, especially think of it sailing to windward - that's what 50kg of anchor and chain is like. You need to carry an anchor and rode but it does not need to be all chain and it does not need to sit in the bow (in fact the anchor should be moved from the bow roller) Its the same with fuel and water - you can sail a 28' yacht with a crew of 4? now imagine an extra 2 people, who never sit on the rail and who do absolutely nothing, that's the fuel and water. Dinghies, spare (unnecessary) sails a decent tool kit all weigh. You are doing yourself and the crew no favours, if you want to be contenders, if you carry unnecessary weight.

I advocate every yacht should carry a min of 2 anchors anyway (when cruising) and I also suggest they be different styles. A Spade is superb, you are obviously someone with discretion. However they are not at their best in thin mud (and nothing really works in weed). A Fortress (as we are talking of racing) will fill the gap in the Spade's performance and will weight less. The difference between an alloy Fortress and steel Spade is only a few kgs but once you get near the top of the score board lots of 'few kilograms' from lots of little items can make the difference. Realise your competitors might be sailing yachts at their handicap weight, new and empty. Difficult, or expensive, to dry sail (hulls hold water) but you can get as close as possible. Some fleets of 'smaller' yachts are sailed dry, Dragons and Etchells, no-one would consider competing with a yacht kept in the water - they actually have races for older Etchells, called wet Etchells in which dry stored yachts cannot compete.

Its partially a state of mind - if you and the crew are concentrating on weight minimisation you will also find you concentrate more on other aspects as well. Getting rid of excess weight will be a great help, you should move up the score board, this will help to encourage (and you'll remove more weight) and you'll get slicker with the spinnaker drops etc as you get nearer to top.

Ratings of yacht are based on weight, effectively empty. The closer to getting near the dry weight the closer you are to your handicap rating.

But you need a hard core of solid crew members, people who will be there all the time - they need to get to know the boat as well as you.

It took us racing every week, sometimes twice at the weekend, 12 months to realise our mistakes - and weight was part of the equation.

Good Luck,

Jonathan

 

[roblpm]

Image having someone slightly underweight, say 50kg, standing on your bow all the time, especially think of it sailing to windward - that's what 50kg of anchor and chain is like. You need to carry an anchor and rode but it does not need to be all chain and it does not need to sit in the bow (in fact the anchor should be moved from the bow roller) Its the same with fuel and water - you can sail a 28' yacht with a crew of 4? now imagine an extra 2 people, who never sit on the rail and who do absolutely nothing, that's the fuel and water. Dinghies, spare (unnecessary) sails a decent tool kit all weigh. You are doing yourself and the crew no favours, if you want to be contenders, if you carry unnecessary weight.

I advocate every yacht should carry a min of 2 anchors anyway (when cruising) and I also suggest they be different styles. A Spade is superb, you are obviously someone with discretion. However they are not at their best in thin mud (and nothing really works in weed). A Fortress (as we are talking of racing) will fill the gap in the Spade's performance and will weight less. The difference between an alloy Fortress and steel Spade is only a few kgs but once you get near the top of the score board lots of 'few kilograms' from lots of little items can make the difference. Realise your competitors might be sailing yachts at their handicap weight, new and empty. Difficult, or expensive, to dry sail (hulls hold water) but you can get as close as possible. Some fleets of 'smaller' yachts are sailed dry, Dragons and Etchells, no-one would consider competing with a yacht kept in the water - they actually have races for older Etchells, called wet Etchells in which dry stored yachts cannot compete.

Its partially a state of mind - if you and the crew are concentrating on weight minimisation you will also find you concentrate more on other aspects as well. Getting rid of excess weight will be a great help, you should move up the score board, this will help to encourage (and you'll remove more weight) and you'll get slicker with the spinnaker drops etc as you get nearer to top.

Ratings of yacht are based on weight, effectively empty. The closer to getting near the dry weight the closer you are to your handicap rating.

But you need a hard core of solid crew members, people who will be there all the time - they need to get to know the boat as well as you.

It took us racing every week, sometimes twice at the weekend, 12 months to realise our mistakes - and weight was part of the equation.

Good Luck,

Jonathan

Ok so a fortress beckons. What to attach it to? 30m of 12mm warp? 5m chain or none? And where to store it? Inside the boat? Central? Low down?

 

[Neeves]

Ok so a fortress beckons. What to attach it to? 30m of 12mm warp? 5m chain or none? And where to store it? Inside the boat? Central? Low down?

in the ISAF rules, and most races are governed by these rules (with sometime local variants) the rules define what weight of anchor should be carried. its a simple length of yacht vs anchor weight. ISAF use Danforth as one of their standards and Fortress have a Danforth:Fortress conversion. If you have doubts, send Fortress an email. Its the same with the rode, ISAF dictate what should be carried, length of nylon, diam and amount of chain. The anchors and rode that ISAF demand are a bit smaller/lighter than you would use as primary when cruising but they are good as a secondary. Its worth meeting ISAF rules, and not skimping, as if you move up the 'seriousness' ladder you might find you must meet the ISAF rules and if you do not meet them you would need to buy again (ouch).

Store under the mast or over the keel. I'd have the rode in one bag and the anchor in another (the anchor, I think, is meant to be attached to the rode) but I'd have 2 bags (old back packs, sail bags will do) as then the anchor will not abrade the rode. You need to keep them out of the way (and often mast base is a good location unless you have room under the cabin sole (not usual in modern yachts)). If in bags the rode is manageable and the shank and stock will not get caught in spinnakers. Lash to mast with bungee cord, but they will not be that heavy - under a berth locker.

On short races, windward/leewards etc on a small yacht, or upto 40' - sorry if small seems to have got bigger, we used to drop our spinnakers into a bag that we made that fitted the main cabin hatch, the bag filled the whole hatch. We never touched the spinnaker once in the bag, it was dropped straight in and hoisted straight out. We had ties at the top of the bag so that we could switch the sheets round if the hoist was on the other side from the drop. If we had to pull the sheets and halyard round, we'ed unclip from the spinnaker, tie the spinnaker up to individual ties, and pull the sheets and halyard round all as 'one' - and doing the pulling round with the crew on the rail. We'ed then clip the sheets and halyard back on. Basically one man came off the rail to clip, reclip, no-one else need move. Crew running up and down the deck is weight in the wrong place! As we had two spinnakers we actual had one bag with a divider so that we could have both in the bag, but separated, at the same time - so if you do the same you need lots of ties or clips. The first hoist would be from a normal turtle, after that the turtle would be dropped onto the cabin sole and left there till the end of racing.

This really works well on short races, it works on long races too but the bag gets in the way if you need to make sail changes, or get at lunch. But having crew down below sorting out the spinnaker when on a windward leg wastes weight on the rail and can be a recipe for seasickness (and loss of a crew member). Its worth considering and each yacht might have a slightly different solution spinnaker bag. You might need to have attachment points for the bag in each corner of the, open, hatch and as it might be raining its worth ensuring you can close the hatch over the bag (heavy rain adds weight!) - though you will need to open the hatch momentarily to house and retrieve. A hatch bag is not an original idea - sailmakers might have good suggestions.

We made our own out of nylon with a tape reinforced top, so ours fitted the hatch exactly.

Jonathan