Anchor setup for serious crusing - anchor size for 25 foot, 2 tons (4500 pounds) yachts

[Greenheart]

I am thinking about 10 kg Delta anchor and chain...6 mm would be sufficient...

I just popped in because I had an Achilles 24, same as you. I've only looked at a few replies, because life is short.

Mine came with a tired old CQR of about 6KG and a lot of rusty chain, so with the same instincts as you, I picked up a 10kg Delta from Force 4 and 25m of 6mm G40 chain from Seamark Nunn, plus about 30m of anchorplait. Ample.

On all the yachts I've crewed since selling my own, it amused me that despite the enthusiasm for discussion here, most sailors only use the ancient CQR that was on the boat when they bought it. They don't change it because it never lets them down, because they never push their luck...which is a fine, prudent way to avoid bother and expense.

Anchor threads...what a drag. ?

I'll pop off again now because the weekend is short, too.
.

 

[Neeves]

I just popped in because I had an Achilles 24, same as you. I've only looked at a few replies, because life is short.

Mine came with a tired old CQR of about 6KG and a lot of rusty chain, so with the same instincts as you, I picked up a 10kg Delta from Force 4 and 25m of 6mm G40 chain from Seamark Nunn, plus about 30m of anchorplait. Ample.

On all the yachts I've crewed since selling my own, it amused me that despite the enthusiasm for discussion here, most sailors only use the ancient CQR that was on the boat when they bought it. They don't change it because it never lets them down, because they never push their luck...which is a fine, prudent way to avoid bother and expense.

Anchor threads...what a drag. ?

I'll pop off again now because the weekend is short, too.
.

Probably why many yachts looking old and tired have decent sails -

Why use them, prudent way to avoid bother and expense.

G40 chain, complete waste of money - G30 would have been more than adequate, especially as you never pushed your luck.

People who cannot accept anchor threads - how tedious.



Jonathan

 

[Poignard]

Don't knock anchor threads.

If it wasn't for them all we'd be left with is cars and cookery. ?

 

[vyv_cox]

Don't pay any attention to tests unless they are done by the RNLI, USCG, Lloyds or ABS. Light anchors hold well, BUT bend or even brake. The RNLI boats carry the Lewmar Delta, Admiralty pattern fishermans, and the UK Spade, BUT the galvanising for that SHHP new generation anchor is no good. The USCG boats carry a Lewmar Claw, (Bruce), Steel Danforth and ships anchors, (Heavier unbendable version of a Danforth).
One test in the public domain that the RNLI did showed that the genuine CQR outperformed the Delta, although not by much. That's why Lewmar put it back into production.

I imagine that anchoring an all-weather lifeboat is a fairly rare event. One thing is certain: their requirement in an anchor is very different from mine. I cannot blame them for selecting the best available but they are never going to sleep aboard with nobody on watch in questionable weather, which we do regularly.

I believe the RIBs may anchor to back down in onshore winds but again there are plenty of crew to re-anchor if necessary.

 

[Neeves]

Light anchors hold well, BUT bend or even brake.

The USCG boats carry a Lewmar Claw, (Bruce), Steel Danforth and ships anchors, (Heavier unbendable version of a Danforth).

The USCG equip their boats with Fortress anchors.

Boats - The World's Best Anchors!

Which contradicts your information and suggests maybe light anchors don't commonly bend nor break. In fact the aluminium Excel sold by Jimmy Green has a shank as strong as any of their other portfolio of anchors.

I'd also correct your semantics, Danforth are bendable versions, derivatives of, 'ships' anchors. 'Ships Anchors' came before Danforth.

Jonathan

 

[geem]

The USCG equip their boats with Fortress anchors.

Boats - The World's Best Anchors!

Which contradicts your information and suggests maybe light anchors don't commonly bend nor break. In fact the aluminium Excel sold by Jimmy Green has a shank as strong as any of their other portfolio of anchors.

I'd also correct your semantics, Danforth are bendable versions, derivatives of, 'ships' anchors. 'Ships Anchors' came before Danforth.

Jonathan

My Trintella was originally supplied with a 75lb ships anchor style of kedge. It had a purpose made bracket on the stern rail. It never got used as nobody could lift it. I tried it once and it was useless. I weighed it in at the scrap yard and replaced it with aluminium anchors. One is military surplus and weighs 10kg. It looks like a Fortress that's been to the gym and has been on a dose of steroids. The other is a Fortress fx55. It's our storm anchor. Dismantled in the bilges for when we need it.

 

[dunedin]

…………
On all the yachts I've crewed since selling my own, it amused me that despite the enthusiasm for discussion here, most sailors only use the ancient CQR that was on the boat when they bought it. They don't change it because it never lets them down, because they never push their luck...which is a fine, prudent way to avoid bother and expense.
……………….]

Just out of interest, how many nights did you spend on anchor overnight, and how many were in the NW of the UK?

Yes plenty of boats down south may have that kit. And we know many boats down south (and some up north) choose rarely to anchor other than perhaps in benign conditions off a sandy beach (when a kids toy attached to chain would probably hold sufficiently for lunch).
Not sure your survey of “most sailors” is necessarily representative of the people who spend many nights on anchor in all weathers.

 

[Greenheart]

That's rather the point I was making - carefully avoiding the use of ground tackle except in conditions when it's sure to be a pleasure to be at anchor, is essential to the lazy man's guide to pleasant sailing. If it looks like it'll be an ordeal, don't do it. When passage-planning, don't even take a chance of needing better than basic kit.

I was persuaded that I needed the Delta, by forum threads that condemned the old CQR. The Delta may be an improvement on that, and may itself be laughable old scrap compared with new designs, but it was much more than I needed because I never went out looking for a challenge.

Sailing's at its best when it's effortless. If it may not be, don't go. Then at the year-end you can only reflect on the perfect day (or days, in a good year) you spent sailing in brochure weather.

I realise that may not apply in Scotland. ?

 

[geem]

That's rather the point I was making - carefully avoiding the use of ground tackle except in conditions when it's sure to be a pleasure to be at anchor, is essential to the lazy man's guide to pleasant sailing. If it looks like it'll be an ordeal, don't do it. When passage-planning, don't even take a chance of needing better than basic kit.

I was persuaded that I needed the Delta, by forum threads that condemned the old CQR. The Delta may be an improvement on that, and may itself be laughable old scrap compared with new designs, but it was much more than I needed because I never went out looking for a challenge.

Sailing's at its best when it's effortless. If it may not be, don't go. Then at the year-end you can only reflect on the perfect day (or days, in a good year) you spent sailing in brochure weather.

I realise that may not apply in Scotland. ?

I find sailing at its best when it's a little more challenging. Challenging sailing is not effortless but it brings greater rewards in my experience

 

[FWB]

I find sailing at its best when it's a little more challenging. Challenging sailing is not effortless but it brings greater rewards in my experience

I don’t do challenging. I like a nice sunny peaceful anchorage and a bottle of vino. ??

 

[Greenheart]

I find sailing at its best when it's a little more challenging.

Geem, I reckon you're one of the rare ones, who actually travels beyond the range of reassuring forecasts and ideal anchorages, and genuinely benefits from the best kit. I enjoy all your forum entries as an exciting window on ocean sailing that I've gradually realised I don't actually envy.

For most of us, we needn't be at sea when conditions aren't ideal and we only bought a boat hoping for sun and fair winds, so the pursuit of better and ever-more costly kit for dealing with 'serious' weather is largely an irrelevance that makes chandlery-owners smile.

Of course, few here will admit that, even if they see it. ?

 

[doug748]

I really appreciate all your comments. Due to mostly job limitations, we can 'only' have 4 weeks for the cruise. We plan to go from Essex (Blackwater River) along the South Coast, trying to reach the Isles of Scilly, maybe Milford Heaven. However, this is the perfect occasion to get used to anchoring. I am going to buy mentioned Epsilon Anchor, with some 30-40 meters of chain and nylon scope. The current Bruce with 20+20 will remain a secondary anchor.

Good show, thanks for reporting back. Let us know how things pan out.

 

[geem]

I don’t do challenging. I like a nice sunny peaceful anchorage and a bottle of vino. ??

The nice thing about a bit of challenging sailing is the beer tastes better at the end. We get several months of basking in perfect weather for only a few days of challenging weather. It's not all hardship and weevil filled hard tack?

 

[FWB]

The nice thing about a bit of challenging sailing is the beer tastes better at the end. We get several months of basking in perfect weather for only a few days of challenging weather. It's not all hardship and weevil filled hard tack?

 

[noelex]

If you look at the link here Round Britain summary of the trip including costings I think you will find that Roger did almost exactly what the OP is proposing except he went anti clockwise and did not anchor at all. The point I was making is that it is possible to choose whether to anchor or not. Therefore it makes sense to only anchor in settled conditions. Does not mean he should not be prepared but that anchoring in extreme conditions that would test his anchoring gear can be avoided.

If you want to understand the challenges the OP faces it really is worth reading concerto's account of doing exactly the same last summer. This is the summary forums.ybw.com/index.php?threads/round-britain-summary-of-the-trip-including-costings.588365/ and there is a link at the end to the full account. Note the lack of anchoring never mind in a gale! It is a pity that Daydreambeliever has not joined in here as he has done it more than once in a small cruiser racer - and he never anchors anywhere! A good friend of mine did it, although through the canal 4 or 5 years ago in a Contessa 27, 2 handed with his wife and dog. Took just over 3 months hard sailing and only anchored a handful of times.

There is no ideal way of cruising. Do what makes you happy.

As you correctly point out, it is possible to cruise Scotland while staying only in marinas and on mooring balls. However, if you enjoy the remote wilderness areas it is also possible to cruise Scotland for long periods while rarely or never using these facilities.

Modern anchors have reached the stage where even very severe weather conditions can be as safe as staying in marinas, but this requires good gear.

 

[NormanS]

Deleted.

 

[Neeves]

When we raced most of sailing was inshore and round buoys and sometimes round islands. If the forecast was over, I don't recall, 30 knots?, racing was cancelled.

But part of the racing season included some long offshore events, the longest being HK Manilla. I could never understand the thinking behind the 30 knot restriction as the only time you experienced strong winds was half way across the South China Sea and you were largely unprepared for what happens.

Its like cruising in the Med, gorgeous, until its not

No wonder the Scilly storm and the one described in my oft used link of a storm in the Med (see below) leave people totally unprepared. Maybe we would have less people on beaches, or rocks, if they were not solely fair weather sailors, not so critical of those who wish to share knowledge and those who desire to learn.

Safety at Sea: Surviving a Powerful Storm in the Med

Storm tactics at anchor: Surviving gales in Scilly - Yachting Monthly

As the report on the storm in the Med illustrates - even equipment from highly respected manufacturers fails, you only find out when it is tested. You are totally beguiled by the brand, it never occurs to you its junk.

You could of course read, for example, anchor threads, and you might then have an inkling what works and what does not. Being an ostrich or bigot has its disadvantages.

Interestingly anchor threads do lead to changes, the mantra of 'Bigger is Better' has slowly reduced or disappeared. Aluminium, or lighter weight (HT steels) has gained some acceptance for anchors. The religious fervour for heavy chain and catenary is reduced, people (or some) accept the idea of snubbers, most know of the value of Crosby shackles, 'C' link joiners are used, All this despite the criticism that anchor threads are boring, too frequent (and should thus be discouraged).

Persistence has its virtues and rewards.

Another observation - complaints of chain quality were common place over 10 years ago, chains rusted and sometimes failed, now that chain manufacture has almost exclusively moved to China - complaints have largely disappeared (so much for those who love to 'China bash').

Jonathan

Bigot. An obstinate and intolerant believer in a religion or political theory...... A forecast is just a forecast - its not certainty. Localised weather might be too small, though severe, to be included in a forecast.

 

[slawosz]

Read about Scillies storm. I have feeling I am back to square one.… Panope bashed Epsilon on veering condition. Photos on the Scillies storm showed beautifully buried Rocna… It’s madness.
But at the same time Panope test was too clinical, and looked like entire trust force was transferred to the anchor. I guess snubber would make loads much lower...

 

[vyv_cox]

Read about Scillies storm. I have feeling I am back to square one.… Panope bashed Epsilon on veering condition. Photos on the Scillies storm showed beautifully buried Rocna… It’s madness.
But at the same time Panope test was too clinical, and looked like entire trust force was transferred to the anchor. I guess snubber would make loads much lower...

Yes. A lot of Panope's findings don't seem to be supported by real life observations. I have dozens of underwater photos of my Rocna like Ken Endean's, after big storms, veering winds etc.
I don't think a snubber would reduce loads, just apply them more gently.

 

[slawosz]

Yes. A lot of Panope's findings don't seem to be supported by real life observations. I have dozens of underwater photos of my Rocna like Ken Endean's, after big storms, veering winds etc.
I don't think a snubber would reduce loads, just apply them more gently.

And your personal experience favours Rocna over Delta?