Anchor setup for serious crusing - anchor size for 25 foot, 2 tons (4500 pounds) yachts

[Stemar]

Gym membership is a good argument in favour of a mixed rode, and tends to work better for it anyway - rope doesn't always lose itself in the locker properly. Mine is too shallow, so the chain goes in fine, but I have to open the locker to pull the rope out from under the windlass.

It's also a strong argument in favour of as small a chain as you can get away with. I was fine with 17m of 8mm chain for years, then Anno Domini started to catch up with me. 6mm chain was a revelation!

 

[vyv_cox]

As promised, this is the results table from the joint comprehensive anchor test of 2006. Not much explanation needed except to say that the size of the Fortress is not comparable with the 35 lb steel ones, it was considerably larger because apparently somebody did not know that aluminium has a lower density than steel! The point I always make in talks on the subject is that NO anchor held perfectly every time. Anchors can never be 100% reliable.

The contrast between old and new generation anchors cannot be more clear. The Hydrobubble is a strange one: I believe that it is no longer in production.

 

[Tranona]

I have no idea about your level of experience of cruising in Scottish waters, but be advised that if you sail in these waters, and never anchor, you miss all the best of it.
There is a world of difference between cruising in an area, and a quick dash round. I don't know which the OP is proposing, but I'm sure it'll be enjoyable.

This thread is not about cruising in Scottish waters, nor sightseeing, but about preparing a boat for sailing around the UK. I tried to make my responses relevant to the question by pointing out that it is possible to complete the voyage without anchoring in exposed places.

As you are always pointing out there are plenty of sheltered anchorages - and it is irrelevant what it was like when you started out - the OP is going this year and needs to plan for what he can expect now.

 

[doug748]

Regarding tests, mentioned above - I am with @vyv_cox - I think they maybe not fully objective. I think that its very hard to test things like anchors as you don't have proper testing environment - although repetitive tests help.
Anyway, I think mentioned test from 2006 is in this video:

Yes, I think those are the tests mentioned.

In the video we learn the truth about old (Boo) and new (Hooray) anchors. Zealots are always so certain of their truths.
However, it is not hard to find contradictory evidence about how anchors perform. Here we can see quite different results and suddenly the CQR (which came in for particularly damming criticism - it would not work at all, zero holding power) is resurrected:




I don't much like the CQR myself but I think you have to take things in the round if you are choosing. There are some anchors that have come out consistently well over the years but the cost would be big percentage of the value smaller boat, which is a factor many can't ignore.

.

 

[slawosz]

the OP is going this year and needs to plan for what he can expect now.

Its still finalizing - not sure yet if I will go... Although with some sales in chandleries going on right now, I decided to start topic early, as amount of equipment I would need to buy would be substancial. Anyway, I would probably sell anchor (possibly with chain) afterwards so might go with slighlty bigger to reflect better sellability. Eg. Rocna 10 kg would be oversized, but not too much.

 

[Neeves]

Its still finalizing - not sure yet if I will go... Although with some sales in chandleries going on right now, I decided to start topic early, as amount of equipment I would need to buy would be substancial. Anyway, I would probably sell anchor (possibly with chain) afterwards so might go with slighlty bigger to reflect better sellability. Eg. Rocna 10 kg would be oversized, but not too much.

This lacks any logic.

So you are currently poorly equiped with ground tackle and you, rightly, are looking at the options. In many respect if you have a yacht then an anchor and rode are part of your safety equipment (you should really carry 2 anchors, the second able to replace the primary - people do lose anchors (been there, done that) and should be adequate to use in an emergency. You are rightly equipping for such - and then you want to sell the safety equipment.

What are you going to use if the chips are down after you sell the safety equipment (what would you do it you sold your LJs as well - after all no-one actually uses them in anger either.

Now - I can appreciate the you might, having done the circumnavigation, so knocked that one off the bucket list, also sell the yacht - without a full compliment of safety equipment.....???

I'd buy safety equipment on the basis of its suitability to the yacht - not on its resale value.


As an aside - we were in Refuge Cove, Wilsons Prom roughly in the middle of the north shore of Bass Strait. There was a Storm warning. They wondered if they could borrow an anchor, no problem to us - we carry 4. We were the only yacht there. They had lost their only anchor and were heading to the nearest chandler, about 80nm away... beggars belief.

Jonathan

 

[slawosz]

This lacks any logic.

So you are currently poorly equiped with ground tackle and you, rightly, are looking at the options. In many respect if you have a yacht then an anchor and rode are part of your safety equipment (you should really carry 2 anchors, the second able to replace the primary - people do lose anchors (been there, done that) and should be adequate to use in an emergency. You are rightly equipping for such - and then you want to sell the safety equipment.

With all due respect, it would be nice if you would ask what kind of ground tackle I own currently - before bashing . I have 20 m of chain and 25 meters of scope which is more than enough for my current cruising area.

 

[vyv_cox]

As an aside - we were in Refuge Cove, Wilsons Prom roughly in the middle of the north shore of Bass Strait. There was a Storm warning. They wondered if they could borrow an anchor, no problem to us - we carry 4. We were the only yacht there. They had lost their only anchor and were heading to the nearest chandler, about 80nm away... beggars belief.

We lost an anchor in Ibiza in the most benign conditions imaginable. Anchored in a sheltered bay in very light winds listening to a live concert on shore, sitting in the cockpit with a glass of something. Suddenly there was a bang from underwater and it became obvious that we were no longer attached to the seabed. On hauling in the chain I found half a swivel on the end but no anchor. This was the start of my prolonged investigations into swivel strength.

Failures do not always occur in wild conditions. This one, due to stress-corrosion cracking, had been building up for some time and chose to go at a time that could hardly have been more convenient for us. They don't always of course

 

[Minerva]

This thread is not about cruising in Scottish waters, nor sightseeing, but about preparing a boat for sailing around the UK. I tried to make my responses relevant to the question by pointing out that it is possible to complete the voyage without anchoring in exposed places.

As you are always pointing out there are plenty of sheltered anchorages - and it is irrelevant what it was like when you started out - the OP is going this year and needs to plan for what he can expect now.

Traona - I generally agree with you on other topics, but on this, I feel the need to politely disagree.

I've sailed on the West coast for a goodly number of years now, and as a conservative rule of thumb, in any given 2 week summer cruise I would expect to ride out at least one gale of >40kts.

Whilst there are undoubtably an increasing number of pontoon berths in the area, they are not always sheltered (looking at you Tobermory, Lochmaddy & Mallaig), nor can you reasonably assume there will be a convenient pontoon available within a short sail away- especially if your 25ft with corresponding average sailing speeds, or that if there is, a free pontoon will be available.

On that basis, if you are looking to sail on the west coast, prepare to be able to confidently be able to anchor in a gale in waters with 15m depth at high tide.

 

[NormanS]

If the OP does not have a windlass, then he doesn't need a swivel. He can easily twist the chain to orientate the anchor.

 

[NormanS]

This thread is not about cruising in Scottish waters, nor sightseeing, but about preparing a boat for sailing around the UK. I tried to make my responses relevant to the question by pointing out that it is possible to complete the voyage without anchoring in exposed places.

As you are always pointing out there are plenty of sheltered anchorages - and it is irrelevant what it was like when you started out - the OP is going this year and needs to plan for what he can expect now.

So by your logic, he doesn't need an anchor at all, or at the very worst, just a wee one suitable for your benign conditions. ??

 

[vyv_cox]

If you feel the need for a swivel - use a Boomerang.

As I think you predicted, a Boomerang does not work with a grooved bow roller.

My anchor used to slide from side to side with an ungrooved roller, so I had one made with a groove to accept the shank of my Rocna. This does not retain my 8 mm chain, with the result that the chain rolls and the anchor can come up reversed. A swivel allows the anchor to rotate before hauling it onto the roller.

 

[vyv_cox]

So by your logic, he doesn't need an anchor at all, or at the very worst, just a wee one suitable for your benign conditions. ??

Admittedly in southern waters rather than Scotland, but in Lezardrieux we met a couple from Southampton who had tried anchoring ten years previously, unsuccessfully. Despite cruising widely they had never anchored since.

 

[Bodach na mara]

With all due respect, it would be nice if you would ask what kind of ground tackle I own currently - before bashing . I have 20 m of chain and 25 meters of scope which is more than enough for my current cruising area.

OK. In my opinion you're a bit short of chain. When I bought my current boat it came with 25 metres of 9mm chain and 30 metres of 14 mm three-strand warp. This for a 34ft boat. I have used warp and mixed chain/warp in the past and had problems in small anchorages so prefer all chain. I currently carry 60m of 9mm chain and have used it all at least once in each of the last 6 seasons. In your case I would advise at least 60 m of 6mm chain plus your existing warp. As others have said there are a lot of places with pontoons. As they have also said they may not be available and may not be where you want to go. But there are lots of anchorages about within easy reach over a lot of the coast. I can't speak for Lochmaddy but if Mallaig is not advisable then Isleornsay is not far away and if Tobermory is inaccessible then Lochaline is about 12 miles away and offers pontoons and, even better, a large area of 5m depth anchorage with great holding at the head of the loch. Oban is a great place to get stores but it is a real horror of a place to anchor with deep water (15 - 20 metres) and thick kelp bottom. But there are quite a lot of visitors moorings and also pontoons at the transit marina and also the Kerrera marina across the harbour.

There is lots of information available online. Google is your friend for local knowledge. Good luck.

 

[dunedin]

I know you own Rocna, how about length of chain and scope?

We have a bigger boat, with the luxury of an electric windlass and lots of chain. But as you asked, broadly (all multiples of depth near HW)
- Lunch = 3x
- Overnight = 4x
- Windy = 5x
- Stormy = 6x (or more if space permits, especially in shallow water)

 

[doug748]

.......................so might go with slighlty bigger to reflect better sellability. Eg. Rocna 10 kg would be oversized, but not too much.

A Rocna 10kg is not oversized (do I detect a new buzz word on the forum) but the recommended size for your boat. Rocna make a point of stressing that they size anchors for use in foul weather and err on the side of caution.

For a Delta, 6kg is the recommend size.

For a Sarca Excel the recommended size is as high as, 12.5kg.

How does that compute? The Delta has been shown to be a steady performer, the Sarca has returned some consistently outstanding test results yet is telling you you need twice the size for your Sadler.
The solution is that the tables make huge assumptions about usage, in all cases there is tacit agreement that a modestly larger anchor will give you an increased margin of safety.

As I mentioned before, I think you have to look at things all round, I carry a fairly light anchor myself because it suits, for your projected trip it would be prudent not to skimp.

.

 

[slawosz]

OK. In my opinion you're a bit short of chain.

Hence the topic. I currently have 20 + 25. @dunedin thank you for your reply. I think that 60 + 40 meters of scope make sense. Briefly looking into web navionics gives me idea of depth, so its reasonable to assume possibility of anchoring in 15 meters of water.

 

[boomerangben]

I have a smaller lighter boat (20’, about a tonne fully ladened and ballasted). Fortress fx7 ( I think from memory - the smallest one), 5m of 6mm chain and 25m of 10mm three strand nylon. Boat draws less than a foot when the centreboard is up so seek out shallow water. Fortress is excellent. It’s launched from the cockpit (nylon is pre rigged through the bow cleat and lead back to the cockpit). Served us well in Inner and Outer Hebrides. I think with a small boat, keep it light for lots of reasons. Rather than add chain to your existing set up, I’d add another aluminium anchor of a different design to your existing anchor and look at a means of being able switch the chain between the two easily

 

[Tranona]

Traona - I generally agree with you on other topics, but on this, I feel the need to politely disagree.

I've sailed on the West coast for a goodly number of years now, and as a conservative rule of thumb, in any given 2 week summer cruise I would expect to ride out at least one gale of >40kts.

Whilst there are undoubtably an increasing number of pontoon berths in the area, they are not always sheltered (looking at you Tobermory, Lochmaddy & Mallaig), nor can you reasonably assume there will be a convenient pontoon available within a short sail away- especially if your 25ft with corresponding average sailing speeds, or that if there is, a free pontoon will be available.

On that basis, if you are looking to sail on the west coast, prepare to be able to confidently be able to anchor in a gale in waters with 15m depth at high tide.

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding of the problem for the OP, perhaps because he introduced the idea of "serious cruising" and highlighted the west coast of Scotland as an area causing him concern about anchoring, which sets some off on their hobby horses.

He is not planning a 2 week cruise - and you can experience severe weather in most of the UK in any 2 weeks of the summer. To do what he wants will take 5-6 months of the summer if he adopts the most common day sails with the odd overnight strategy. As those who have done it will agree there are far more challenging sections than the 8-10 sailing days it takes to get down (or up) the west coast of Scotland, both from the point of view of weather and anchoring/berthing. In reality the only way of achieving it is to plan NOT to anchor, and it is the development of sheltered harbours all round our coast that actually makes it feasible to do it in a small boat in a typical British summer. Hence my remark that one would only choose to anchor in benign conditions as if the forecast is such that heavy weather is likely before you reach your next safe berth you stay where you are.

If you want to take a leisurely cruise, anchoring as much as possible then you need an entirely different plan - and take 2 or 3 summers to do it and how you kit your boat out (and indeed the type of boat you choose!) will be rather different. The OPs boat I suggest would not be the first choice for "serious cruising" - it is a light cruiser racer designed primarily for coastal cruising and club racing. It has very basic anchoring facilities. A small bow roller and a locker just behind with access from the deck for stowing the anchor and the rode, normally a 15lb CQR or Bruce with a mixed 6mm chain (1/4" when they were built!) and 10mm rope. More than adequate for 2 tonne low windage boat. I looked at one again today and there is no way you could easily deploy a 10kg Rocna. No anchor would stow on the roller and how would you get the anchor through the gap between the pulpit and the forestay? yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/sadler-25/sadler-25.htm Pretty sure it would not fit in the anchor locker either. Hence my suggestion right at the beginning of a 6kg Epsilon which is the size recommended by Lewmar. Confident that would hold his boat in the conditions in your last sentence - should he be foolish (or unlucky) enough to get into that situation.

If you want to understand the challenges the OP faces it really is worth reading concerto's account of doing exactly the same last summer. This is the summary forums.ybw.com/index.php?threads/round-britain-summary-of-the-trip-including-costings.588365/ and there is a link at the end to the full account. Note the lack of anchoring never mind in a gale! It is a pity that Daydreambeliever has not joined in here as he has done it more than once in a small cruiser racer - and he never anchors anywhere! A good friend of mine did it, although through the canal 4 or 5 years ago in a Contessa 27, 2 handed with his wife and dog. Took just over 3 months hard sailing and only anchored a handful of times.

It is possible for the OP to do this trip with his current boat, particularly if he has a strong crew that allows longer legs. As you will see Roger in Concerto took 54 sailing days, many of the very long, out of 127 days total but averages well over 5.5 knots. So a Sadler 25 might average 4.5 knots taking well over 70 days and overall probably 150-180 days total. The challenge from the boat point of view is how to equip it to maximise the chances of success and would suggest that the choice of anchor is very low in the list of priorities. Much more important in my view to concentrate on how to get the maximum performance under sail with gear that will last the course. Then a reliable engine as typically at least 25% of the time will be spent under engine. Finally domestic facilities that enable the crew to be as comfortable as possible - warm, well fed and rested when necessary. (Better not start on passage planning and choice of nav gear as that will open up another can of worms!)

 

[boomerangben]

Hence the topic. I currently have 20 + 25. @dunedin thank you for your reply. I think that 60 + 40 meters of scope make sense. Briefly looking into web navionics gives me idea of depth, so its reasonable to assume possibility of anchoring in 15 meters of water.

20m of chain would keep your rope rode off the sea bed in all but still conditions, so I would say is plenty. There’s no coral up here (not where you might anchor anyway)