Anchor Rode for Corribee 21

[rohanp]

Hi all,

First of many posts I am sure given I've just bought my first sail boat in a Corribee 21!

So, first question is about the anchor rode. The anchor is tied up on deck, connected to a ten metre chain which passes through an anchor chain hawse into a locker in the forepeak of the boat where it is connected to the hull. We also have a 60m anchor warp, but the metal loop at the one end is too large to fit through the hawse.

As I understand it, the only way you could use anchor warp and chain would be to:
1. Go below deck and disconnect anchor chain.
2. Go above deck and pull the chain out on deck
3.. Connect anchor warp to chain
4. Lay anchor
5. Fasten warp to boat

Ideally, I just want to be able to pull out as much of the rode as I need to, first chain and then warp I guess.

Sail mostly around the solent and anchor in depths of 2-4m, so not sure just using the full 10m of chain would be sufficient.

Is there an easier way!?

Thanks in advance,

Rohan

 

[sarabande]

There are number of points.

A 10m chain is a bit short for ordinary use in 2 - 4m unless you are going to use it mainly as a 'lunch hook' in shallow water and calm winds.

When you say the chain is connected to the hull, the normal practice is to have a length of line secured at one end to the base of the anchor locker, and at the other to the chain via one of the many knots or bends or hitches suitable for chain to rope fixing. Length of the line to be long enough to pay out on deck, where in an emergency it can be cut with a knife kept nearby for that purpose.

If you want to keep the 10m chain and almost always add a length of warp, you will need to swap the warp to chain connection with a couple of decent shackles., and add another shackle to the metal 'eye' of your main warp. You can then bring the chain on deck, disconnect from the retaining line, then attach the extension warp via the shackles, and then deploy the anchor. Choice of shackles is quite important.

Option 1 - you can buy a 30m length of chain, and use your 10m one for the kedge.
Option 2 - make a more permanent join between the 10m chain and the extension warp having removed the metal eye, and keep the warp at the bottom of the anchor locker with one end attached to the hull. That will give you more than enough warp to anchor in the Solent and also retain the ability to use the warp as a towing line if need be.

Hopping up and down into a forepeak, with not very much room, to disconnect while anchoring is bound to be a bit fraught especially if you are in a hurry,

 

[Blueboatman]

Hiya
Great choice!
Many years ago I had a Corribee and addressed this self same problem:
I used to carry 90feet of 1/4inch chain which surprisingly the chain locker was well able to hold..
I also had a long multi plait anchor warp attached to a separate Fisherman anchor .
I always meant to make a chain /rope splice ( Google /you tube) to join the warp so that it would pass smoothly through the Corribee aluminium stem head fitting and roller.
In the end I managed to snap off the stem head fitting by using too wide a shackle to join the anchor to the chain and letting it fly out in a hurry -doh!
A chum made me a custom stainless steel stem head with wider chain feed and large nylon roller. Which sorted that.
By the way I used a 35lb car and that self same 90 feet of chain and only ever -once- was I forced to shackle on extra warp when anchoring off Sark in the Channel Islands with its greater tidal range.
I had a slotted reinforcing web welded across the new stem head just about 100mm aft of the new anchor roller thus when hoisting anchor one could ' drop' a link of the chain into the slot and catch a breath or two without faffing about wrapping the chain around the deck cleat..This proved brilliant on a boat lacking an anchor windlass.
I also carried but never actually used a block and tackle with a chain hook on one end which theoretically one could hook onto the chain anywhere between the stem head and the waterline and then heave on the block and tackle ( or take the ropes tail back onto a cockpit winch) to assist in breaking out the anchor from being well dug in in mud!
And with that 'set up' we cruised that Corribee everywhere, anchoring carefree and happy !
Best of luck, they are such fabulous hearty wee boats and sail like a dream..

 

[Blueboatman]

Edit . Spellchecker has I see turned my 35lb cqr anchor into a 35lb car.

 

[Stemar]

My plan A would be to
1. Use the metal loop, which I presume to be a hard eye - one of these

to attach the line inside the anchor locker where the chain is currently attached
2. Splice the other end of the warp to the chain.

If it's octoplait, I use this splice

If it's laid rope, this is the one

The splice should pass through the hawse pipe without any difficulty, giving you an ample mixed rode that'll be easy to handle.

 

[Neeves]

A car would be an excellent anchor, if not a bit heavy!

I've not been out much and never sailed on the Solent. If its relevant might someone comment about tides and the OPs idea of anchoring in 2m depths.

Jonathan

 

[JumbleDuck]

Ideally, I just want to be able to pull out as much of the rode as I need to, first chain and then warp I guess.

Sail mostly around the solent and anchor in depths of 2-4m, so not sure just using the full 10m of chain would be sufficient.

I had a Westerly Jouster, which is a very similar size and weight to the Corribee, though not nearly as cute. She came with 35 fathoms (ie 70m) of 6mm chain, which was far more than I ever really needed on the west of Scotland, though I did once use the lot when riding out a gale.

As far as I can see, spring tide range in the Solent is about 3.5m, so assuming you always want to be anchored in 2m you need enough for at least 5.5m. I'd suggest 30m of chain, which will be fine for up to 10m depth in reasonable conditions and give you extra security when tucked away in shallower water when it blows.

I wouldn't bother faffing about with joiners and so on if you can run to £100 or so 30m of 6mm chain. BAsic G30 should be fine, no need for "calibration" as you don't mention a windlass.

 

[Corribee Boy]

I’d like to add something insightful and useful, but the mark 3 Corribee has an anchor locker accessible from the foredeck which just holds the CQR and 40m of chain, so I don’t have your problem.

Good choice of boat though!

 

[zoidberg]

Stemar has it exactly right.

I would dispense with the galvanised ( ? ) hard eye entirely, and splice the warp/rode direct to the chain. The other end I'd secure to the inside of the locker with a lighter line, - which can be cut/released in extremity - and I'd keep a small float/buoy/fender in there which could be tied on, on deck, before such a 'release' so you could come back later and recover your anchor.

 

[rohanp]

Wow, this a great reception for new visitor - thank you all!

So, at first glance and assuming I have understood everything, I need to attach a small 4 seater car to the the end of the... ;-)

But seriously:
I am taken with Stemar's suggestion which seems to fit well. This would mean all the length, and the hard eye would prevent the full length just coming out accidentally anyway. In an emergency, cut the warp (although, appreciate that without the fender suggestion I lose the anchor in all likelihood).

So my key question then is whether with my likely use, the 10m of chain and anchor give enough to moor up overnight and actually manage to sleep. The warp providing the opportunity to have the anchor and full 10m on the ground.


Alternatively, I simply get 30m extra chain and attach this to the existing chain, proving say 40m which should fit in the anchor locker. And I essentially plan on doing without the warp except in exceptional circumstances? I'd rather not shell out for extra chain, but if 10m is not reasonably enough, feels like I should do this anyway?


Apologies to anyone's points or input not considered - likely to be that I'm googling every other word!

Cheers!

 

[duncan99210]

I’ve got about 15m of 6mm chain and 45m of rope on my Hurley 18. The rope/chain join is by way of a shackle through a hard eye on the end of the rope to the chain: it works fine for me but it is too wide to run through the bow roller. One of these days, I’ll do a proper splice between the chain and the rope so it runs better. In the meantime, the Admiral has learnt not to let the whole thing free run but to control it and lift the join over the roller....
Your 10m of chain is not enough on its own to provide anything like enough scope even for a lunch stop! Even if you can find somewhere with only 2m of water, you’re on the edge of not enough scope to meet the 3 x depth minimum. Don’t forget that you have to allow say a metre or so to accommodate the height of your roller above the water. I don’t think you need any more chain: I use 15m because that came with the boat but I used 10m of chain and the rest rope when I had a 20ft mobo. Just join the chain and rope together, that’s a more than adequate system to get you going for now and won’t cost a penny. Once you’ve been sailing for a bit and discovered how often you anchor and in how much water, then you can start thinking about changes, especially WHAT ANCHOR YOU SHOULD USE. Do come back on here and start a thread about that: we do love to disagree about anchors......

 

[zoidberg]

There have been online arguments on'ere since way back last century..... and I s'pose there will be way into the next!

The point of the chain is to take any abrasion when the anchor is dragged across the seabed, when setting the thing. I've anchored satisfactorily in a dozen spots of the West Country, Ireland and Isles of Scilly, a couple in the Solent, others on the East Coast.... and a handful in Britanny..... using 10 metres of chain with 45m. of warp..... in 24' and 26' boats. I've just once used 30m. of warp, and that was in deepish water.

I'd firmly recommend using what you have already. Select your anchoring spot with a little care, ensure as best you can your anchor is bedded in ( another bundle of threads! ) - and record the details each time in a little notebook, which you can review later on. I believe you'll be surprised and pleased with what you learn from that.

Don't forget that the Royal Navy - and everyone else's - used warps for all their fighting ships' anchor rodes for a very long time..... and many of them used anchorages in the Solent! If it was good enough for Nelson.....

 

[TernVI]

10m chain is good, that's the bit that lies on the seabed. You want plenty of rope to connect it to your boat, maybe 4x depth of water or 5X if you are going to tough out a storm.

 

[dutyhog]

We had all chain on our Corribee on the west coast of Scotland, and did need many times the depth down at times.

 

[rohanp]

Thanks all - so I think I have plenty of warp (probably more than enough) and the anchor and chain seem to be ok (its a CQR and relatively hefty).

So, splice warp to chain and then warp to boat using the hard eye. Gives 70m rode, 10 of which is chain and allows the anchor and full 10m chain to lie on the seabed. Which should mean I am good for depths up to 15m (at 4x depth) with the full chain and anchor on seabed).

Appreciate what people are saying and I know you plan for the worst, but we are extremely fair weather sailors at the moment. Most of the time is spent bobbing around with the sails up and the ensign drooped. Never mind storms (famous last words).

 

[john_morris_uk]

10m chain is good, that's the bit that lies on the seabed. You want plenty of rope to connect it to your boat, maybe 4x depth of water or 5X if you are going to tough out a storm.

I fear that the myth that the ten metres lies on the seabed when the wind and tide start really pulling on the rode was busted a little while ago.

The multiples of depth is a bit of a myth as well because it doesn’t work at deeper depths, but the OP can rest securely in most conditions if the holding is good, the water is only a few metres deep and he puts out five or six times the depth. The finesses of anchoring can be learnt over the years.

 

[zoidberg]

Thanks all - so I think I have plenty of warp (probably more than enough) and the anchor and chain seem to be ok (its a CQR and relatively hefty).

So, splice warp to chain and then warp to boat using the hard eye. Gives 70m rode, 10 of which is chain and allows the anchor and full 10m chain to lie on the seabed. Which should mean I am good for depths up to 15m (at 4x depth) with the full chain and anchor on seabed).

Appreciate what people are saying and I know you plan for the worst, but we are extremely fair weather sailors at the moment. Most of the time is spent bobbing around with the sails up and the ensign drooped. Never mind storms (famous last words).

Sounds good to me!

Perhaps it may be helpful if the congregation here made some suggestions for the good 'rohanp' as to quite good anchorages around the Solent - that they have used themselves. Not necesarily overnight......

Here's a couple for starters.....

Just west of Yarmouth, just west of Black Rock, where there's a fine beach. Avoid the two outfall lines.

Inside North Point, in Keyhaven Lake, near the green buoys.

Inside the Beaulieu River, where shown on the chart from just north of Needs Ore Point.

Osborne Bay, NW of the four yellow buoys.

But 'rohanp' may already know of these......

 

[William_H]

There seems to be some difference of opinion on all chain versus rope and chain. Certainly around here rope and chain are considered adequate in couching the regulations re mandatory carriage of anchor. I don't know the Corribee well but would think that a lot of chain in the fore peek would be too much weight (certainly on my 21fter).
So I would suggest go with what you have. However wisdom around here says 5 times depth of water for length of rode. (in fairness we don't have big tides)
If you just draw a sideways diagram you will see that the angle of approach of the rode to the sea floor is what matters. If you draw in 3 times versus 5 times you can see the angle is a lot better with 5 times. Now this angle is improved again by the weight of the chain. So obviously all chain is better but your 10 metres will improve the angle a lot. if necessary it can be augmented with a weight attached at the rope to chain join. Yes the 10 metres of chain will also aid in avoiding chafe on sharp rocks etc.
So just do the rode to chain splice and it should all run through the hawse pipe easily.
In my case I have an opening cover for the anchor hatch such that I can fit the anchor inside. I feed the rope in followed by the chain with anchor on top. This means in an emergency I lift out the anchor pass it under the bow rail and let it go, Yes the inner end of the rope is attached. The rope is tied off on the cleat at a suitable point. All works well. In your case just be very careful to tie down your anchor on the deck very positively. I have had an anchor fall over board by accident from the deck and the effect is rather alarming as she comes up to the end of the rode. ol'will

 

[TernVI]

I fear that the myth that the ten metres lies on the seabed when the wind and tide start really pulling on the rode was busted a little while ago.
..

The first ten metres is likely to spend some time on the ground, or even buried in the ground, so it wants to be chain to avoid wear. The rest is unlikely to touch the bottom and if it does there won't be any tension, so you don't need chain for wear resistance.

 

[john_morris_uk]

The first ten metres is likely to spend some time on the ground, or even buried in the ground, so it wants to be chain to avoid wear. The rest is unlikely to touch the bottom and if it does there won't be any tension, so you don't need chain for wear resistance.

Whilst I agree that the first few metres are likely to be on the ground in benign and close to benign conditions, I was pointing out that it’s not always so. Research shows that the whole rode is off the deck as soon as the wind gets up.