Anchor Ball

[l'escargot]

I have never known a forum for like-minded people, where there are so many petty and pointless pi$$ing contests/arguments.

I think it is the problem with the written word as opposed to a conversation, some people are inclined to examine the minutiae of every word and draw conclusions on what they think is said other than what was generally intended. At the end of the day every post is pointless really - the forum is just a distraction and time passer, it doesn't actually achieve anything in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Robin]

I think you're right, but it always involves at least two people to avoid a collision, there is another YOU who has obligations interlinked with your obligations - a sailing boat has an obligation to display a cone when motoring, you have an obligation treat it as a motor boat.

Well I'm stuffed then cos there is no such thing for sale here that I can find, I found a Plastimo anchor ball shape on sale but no motoring cone one anywhere, nor have I ever seen one in use and this is in 'sue for miles' territory and where the local officials can be really anal about rules compliance

 

[Catamaran]

Does anyone on here actually display a motoring cone?

Having spent a bit of time in the solent this summer, I would say that only about 1 in 30 (or even less) yachts that were under engine propulsion were displaying motoring cones...

 

[Uricanejack]

I think you're right, but it always involves at least two people to avoid a collision, there is another YOU who has obligations interlinked with your obligations - a sailing boat has an obligation to display a cone when motoring, you have an obligation treat it as a motor boat.

I think he has a good point.

Though I would say while it may take two to have a collision. It only takes one to avoid one.

 

[Uricanejack]

Does anyone on here actually display a motoring cone?

Having spent a bit of time in the solent this summer, I would say that only about 1 in 30 (or even less) yachts that were under engine propulsion were displaying motoring cones...

I have no shapes. I have no intention of acquiring any any time soon. I anchor frequently. I do have an anchor light. I use it on rare occasions. Like last month when I went to the fireworks in English Bay.
The CCG RCMP VPD NVPD NVPD VCFDP were all out in force. Giving *******ings on PAs to any one not showing navigation lights, or anchor lights.

Neither balls or cones were mentioned at all.

 

[prv]

Does anyone on here actually display a motoring cone?

Having spent a bit of time in the solent this summer, I would say that only about 1 in 30 (or even less) yachts that were under engine propulsion were displaying motoring cones...

I do when it seems useful. For example, crossing the Channel shipping lanes. Admittedly, I'm not sure whether it's visible at ships' decision-making ranges, but if they are able to see it through binoculars then I think it reduces uncertainty. As well as indicating that I'm under power, I like to think it also implies "I understand, and intend to comply with, the rules", rather than weave about unpredictably like a startled chicken.

In the Solent I don't bother. The big ships are constrained by their draught and legitimately entitled to expect the clouds of yachts to part before them, and everyone local realises that a yacht with its main strapped amidships and no jib, proceeding to windward at six knots, is under power.

Pete

 

[l'escargot]

*

 

[l'escargot]

Does anyone on here actually display a motoring cone?

Having spent a bit of time in the solent this summer, I would say that only about 1 in 30 (or even less) yachts that were under engine propulsion were displaying motoring cones...

I sail in the Solent and I do if I am actually set up to motor sail with both sails drawing but that's not often. I don't tend to motor with sails up, never seen the point of bringing the main in tight on a windless day and motoring for miles with it out but then I've got in mast furling and everything led back to the cockpit so it is no trouble getting sails in and out as conditions dictate.

 

[prv]

I don't tend to motor with sails up, never seen the point of bringing the main in tight on a windless day and motoring for miles with it out

I think the main reason is to avoid the effort of hoisting and stowing it every time you think there might be a puff of wind worth sailing in. Not something that applies if you have in-mast furling. I was more willing to hoist and lower Kindred Spirit's mainsail, but that was smaller and easier to deal with.

There's also an argument that a sail sheeted in tight amidships will reduce the amount you roll in a swell, although I've never done a careful comparison of this.

Pete

 

[pmagowan]

I sail in the Solent and I do if I am actually set up to motor sail with both sails drawing but that's not often. I don't tend to motor with sails up, never seen the point of bringing the main in tight on a windless day and motoring for miles with it out but then I've got in mast furling and everything led back to the cockpit so it is no trouble getting sails in and out as conditions dictate.

I think that is the only condition where it makes sense. I wouldn't motor with the fore sail up as it would tend to take the wind out of it and flap around and even if you had a cone up it would be very inconvenient to change tack. The visability of the cone would make it pointless also. I do, quite often, motor with the mainsail still up as we have boom rolling reefing which is very inconvenient to put up and down on a whim. I tend to get it up if there is the slightest breeze and then sheet it in if I can't make any progress until the next puff comes along. In this condition the cone may be useful but then where I sail there are very few people to notice.

 

[Robin]

I think the main reason is to avoid the effort of hoisting and stowing it every time you think there might be a puff of wind worth sailing in. Not something that applies if you have in-mast furling. I was more willing to hoist and lower Kindred Spirit's mainsail, but that was smaller and easier to deal with.

There's also an argument that a sail sheeted in tight amidships will reduce the amount you roll in a swell, although I've never done a careful comparison of this.

Pete

It does especially in a cross sea swell like in the Channel.

 

[Robin]

Since we cannot even buy a motoring signal cone over here I may just mark one with a marker pen on the roller genoa clew corner's UV cover patch, so rules easily complied with legally by pulling it out just a tiny tad or is there some rule stating the minimum size and/or visible range?

We had a bunch of boats anchored in front of our condo last night, all but one (the biggest) had anchor lights showing but come daylight not one has an anchor shape displayed and the big one is actually aground now so needs a different signal anyway

 

[l'escargot]

...if you had a cone up it would be very inconvenient to change tack. The visability of the cone would make it pointless also...

I have a cruising chute halyard outside of the forestay which I generally leave clipped to top of the pulpit and connect the cone to that. It alleviates both problems.

 

[l'escargot]

Since we cannot even buy a motoring signal cone over here I may just mark one with a marker pen on the roller genoa clew corner's UV cover patch, so rules easily complied with legally by pulling it out just a tiny tad or is there some rule stating the minimum size and/or visible range?...

ANNEX I

POSITIONING AND TECHNICAL DETAILS OF LIGHTS AND SHAPES

(a) Shapes shall be black and of the following sizes:

...(ii) a cone shall have a base diameter of not less than 0.6 metre and a height equal to its diameter;

...(c) In a vessel of less than 20 metres in length shapes of lesser dimensions but commensurate with the size of the vessel may be used...

 

[LadyInBed]

As we have moved on to motor cones, there was a discussion on this a few years back.
If you are sailing with the engine running should you display a motoring cone or only if you are in gear?
If the latter, then on sight of another boat approaching, what's to stop you putting the engine into neutral and claiming rights of a boat under sail :ambivalence:

 

[pmagowan]

As we have moved on to motor cones, there was a discussion on this a few years back.
If you are sailing with the engine running should you display a motoring cone or only if you are in gear?
If the latter, then on sight of another boat approaching, what's to stop you putting the engine into neutral and claiming rights of a boat under sail :ambivalence:

Only when in gear. The engine needs to be operating to give propulsion. It is fine to sail with an engine generating hot water, electric etc. There is nothing to stop people being dishonest.

 

[l'escargot]

As we have moved on to motor cones, there was a discussion on this a few years back.
If you are sailing with the engine running should you display a motoring cone or only if you are in gear?...

The actual wording is "...propelled by machinery..." so an engine running in neutral doesn't require a cone to be displayed.

 

[l'escargot]

So how about this?

The actual wording is "A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards."

This vessel below is definitely "proceeding" under motor and possibly even under sail - in fact that sail looks as if it is drawing and would even "propel" the boat (albeit slowly) if he turned the engine off. Should he be displaying a cone?

And to go on, if you think no. What about the boat below, head into the wind, sheeted tight in? The sail clearly isn't drawing, so not propelling the boat and it couldn't straight into the wind like that anyway. It is clearly proceeding under engine the same as the boat above but without a drawing sail. Is he right in not displaying a cone.

Now before anyone goes off on one, I have only posted these questions and pictures for a bit of mischief but I am interested in peoples view on each situation and how they justify their views in relation to each photo - particularly if you answer no to both questions...

 

[prv]

Now before anyone goes off on one, I have only posted these questions and pictures for a bit of mischief but I am interested in peoples view on each situation and how they justify their views in relation to each photo - particularly if you answer no to both questions...

And here's another one to ponder. The square rigger I used to sail on was very correct about anchor balls, stationing a crew member on the halyard to hoist it the moment the anchor touched bottom and lower it as soon as the anchor was off the ground. Yet there was never any mention of displaying a motoring cone, though we motor-sailed a great deal. And I was once asked to nip aloft and set a single topsail as quickly as possible, because the captain wanted to cut the corner through the Inshore zone of a TSS, which is only allowed for boats under 20m, fishing vessels, and sailing vessels. It seems he felt more legitimate with one sail visible, even though we were entirely motoring.

Pete