Eren
Well-Known Member
Re: An invitation to sea trial of brand new Sirena 64 trawler!��
Sorry the chart came out to be too small. Here is the larger version:
Sorry the chart came out to be too small. Here is the larger version:
An invitation to sea trial of brand new Sirena 64 trawler!?
- Thread starter Eren
- Start date
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Re: An invitation to sea trial of brand new Sirena 64 trawler!��
Wow that is amazingly close but pretty much exactly what you'd expect from your SS M70 which is a bit longer and a bit heavier than my boat. FWIW I'm guessing your MAN engines are the V12s? My boat also has the MAN V12 units but with 1200hp so again this fits very well with your curve. Yes I am very interested to see how the Sirena 64 compares because my next boat will probably be a boat like this
Wow that is amazingly close but pretty much exactly what you'd expect from your SS M70 which is a bit longer and a bit heavier than my boat. FWIW I'm guessing your MAN engines are the V12s? My boat also has the MAN V12 units but with 1200hp so again this fits very well with your curve. Yes I am very interested to see how the Sirena 64 compares because my next boat will probably be a boat like this
Eren
Well-Known Member
Re: An invitation to sea trial of brand new Sirena 64 trawler!��
Yes Mike, they are V12s, MAN D2842LE433.
Yes Mike, they are V12s, MAN D2842LE433.
BartW
Well-Known Member
Re: An invitation to sea trial of brand new Sirena 64 trawler!��
yes we know that and that is such a shame ;-)
but what's amazing in your curve is that between 15kn and 25kn its almost completely flat; there is almost no difference in consumption; nm/G
whereas the SS, the curve has a bit more slope in that range,
all agreed,
that's alway's my point when comparing consumption figures, the choice of boat length and weight will induce a certain "range" of consumption,
going slower is the only sensible method of reducing your fuel consumption.
but nevertheless I'm interested to see the graph of a Sirena (or equivalent) to see what effect this hull type has on consumption.
re comfort at sea;
below 20kn you're in Stabilizer territory, and this gives more comfort to any hull, at any speed.
yes we know that and that is such a shame ;-)
but what's amazing in your curve is that between 15kn and 25kn its almost completely flat; there is almost no difference in consumption; nm/G
whereas the SS, the curve has a bit more slope in that range,
all agreed,
that's alway's my point when comparing consumption figures, the choice of boat length and weight will induce a certain "range" of consumption,
going slower is the only sensible method of reducing your fuel consumption.
but nevertheless I'm interested to see the graph of a Sirena (or equivalent) to see what effect this hull type has on consumption.
re comfort at sea;
below 20kn you're in Stabilizer territory, and this gives more comfort to any hull, at any speed.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Double Amen
Anything else is either marketing BS from builders, or wishful thinking from us boaters.
Amen to that...
...and Amen #2.
Anything else is either marketing BS from builders, or wishful thinking from us boaters.
longjohnsilver
Well-Known Member
Re: Double Amen
I'm sure some boat builders would do very well in the snake oil market.
I'm sure some boat builders would do very well in the snake oil market.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Re: An invitation to sea trial of brand new Sirena 64 trawler!��
Yes it is flat in that speed range. Actually my last Ferretti (53) exhibited similar characteristics with a very flat consumption curve in the 15 - 25kt range so it seems to be a Ferretti hull characteristic
jimba
New Member
Re: An invitation to sea trial of brand new Sirena 64 trawler!��
Eren,
Did you get a chance to do the trial this weekend? Very curious to hear your feedback
Eren,
Did you get a chance to do the trial this weekend? Very curious to hear your feedback
Eren
Well-Known Member
Re: An invitation to sea trial of brand new Sirena 64 trawler!��
Dear friends,
I finally made the sea trial of Sirena 64. As most of you are aware, my main concern was to see the fuel consumption characteristic of this well engineered SD hull and compare it with my experience with P hulls. I believe that a comparison between SD hulls and P hulls from an amateur user’s eye is interesting for many people. Therefore I decided that I will write my comments on this at a seperate thread, as it will be more meaningful. However with a very brief conclusion, I can say that they are really more fuel efficient than the P hulls. I will give more more scientific backup of my conclusion at the soon-to-be thread.
I wish continue with my opinions about the new Sirena 64, other than the fuel aspect. A team of 3 people from Sirena Marine welcomed me at an early Sunday morning. The boat was shiny, number 1 hull. Being the first hull, it had almost all the extras fitted, such as a Seekeeper, hardtop, hidden anchor, Xenta joystick, etc, etc.
I have always owned planing hulls. First an Azi 47, then a Princess 64 and finally a Sunseeker M70. So my views are mostly about comparing this new yacht with what I know from my past. Seekeeping of the boat didnot amaze me. The boat has a flat hull and it naturally bumps at waves from bow. But yes, the boat reached to 27 knots, comfortably. It has a very comfortable cruise range between 10 to 16 knots, which is not the case with the planing boats.
What I liked:
- It was a cloudy and a bit of rainy day. It was great pleasure to drive from the helm, with the very wide view. This, we are not used to from planing hulls as the aerodynamic inclining of the planing boats’ windshield gives us a narrow band of view.
- I loved the engine room. Lots of space, everything well organized. Especially the chrome safety bars around the engines were very well planned. I am always cautious when I am walking between the engines, especially when they are hot. Also I don’t feel good when the water pump guy walks between the engines carelessly and turn off a valve with his back while he is servicing the pump. These bars fully protect from both of these scenarios and I really liked it.
- The master bedroom is very wide and comfy (this comment comes from someone who currently owns a 70 footer). The beam is very wide (5.90 meters - my P64 was only 5.03 m) and this can easily be felt at the master bedroom.
- Usually these type of boats have some kind of “heavier” design. This one has quite sleek and modern design that we are used to seeing at planing hull boats.
- The “square” shape of SD hull really provides a lot of additional space when compared to planing hull boats. This is felt especially at the front VIP cabin, due to the bow design as you may guess.
What I didn’t like:
- The enclosed kitchen (important note: enclosed kitchen is an option. Standard option is just open kitchen): I think these sizes are still not big enough to have an enclosed kitchen. The boat loses from its sociability. But I have to respect the owners who live with their maids/cooks, who do not wish to interact with them. I am not one of them for sure.
- The electrically freezing kitchen windows: This is a new trend at the yachts but, for me it is just a meaningless toy. First of all, it doesn’t work well. When it is powered, it is really frozen and you cannot see behind. But when it is deactivated, it is never as clear as a normal glass. Additionally the person in the kitchen looks like a fish at a mega aquarium.
This is when the kitchen glasses are frozen:
And this is when they are not frozen. You can see that the window at the left side is still not clear as a normal glass:
- Hidden anchor (important note: this was an option as well): As you may see from the below youtube clip, it is a very cool option. When closed, it provides a very neat and clear bow area. However, I am not very sure if I would like to have such an important part of a boat bound to a complicated deploying system. How many times I had silly problems with pasarellas or swimming platforms, which are hydraulic+mechanic systems as well. What if something goes wrong with the hydraulic pump or another part of the anchor deployment system? I wouldn’t go for this option neither with this boat, nor with another one.
What could be better:
- The interior finishing level of the boat is very good. This yard has been building several models for Azimut in the last 10 years (and still the Azimut Magellano 43). Therefore the finishing level is Azimut level. However, somehow it misses the “Woow” feeling of an Azimut or of the other major stylish yards. The missing part is mainly with the choice of textiles. Italian or British yards are much more brave in choosing new fabrics, new colors, etc. They can do it, because they are the trend setters of the sector. Any new yard to the market has to be more conservative and as a result, they cannot reach to the effect level of an Azimut or a SS or the other trend setters. This is what you feel at the Sirena.
Would I consider buying it?:
- Yes, it is a serious option, when I will plan to change my boat. But in order to choose this boat, my main motive would be “having a stylish boat with lower fuel costs”. Otherwise, I would prefer to have a planing boat as long as I am able to afford the fuel bill. It is a personal choice of course. However, for any rational mind, Sirena or other modern SD boats are serious options.
These are the main thing that I would like to report. Please feel free to revert for any questions, from here of from PM.
Thanks for your interest.
Eren
Dear friends,
I finally made the sea trial of Sirena 64. As most of you are aware, my main concern was to see the fuel consumption characteristic of this well engineered SD hull and compare it with my experience with P hulls. I believe that a comparison between SD hulls and P hulls from an amateur user’s eye is interesting for many people. Therefore I decided that I will write my comments on this at a seperate thread, as it will be more meaningful. However with a very brief conclusion, I can say that they are really more fuel efficient than the P hulls. I will give more more scientific backup of my conclusion at the soon-to-be thread.
I wish continue with my opinions about the new Sirena 64, other than the fuel aspect. A team of 3 people from Sirena Marine welcomed me at an early Sunday morning. The boat was shiny, number 1 hull. Being the first hull, it had almost all the extras fitted, such as a Seekeeper, hardtop, hidden anchor, Xenta joystick, etc, etc.
I have always owned planing hulls. First an Azi 47, then a Princess 64 and finally a Sunseeker M70. So my views are mostly about comparing this new yacht with what I know from my past. Seekeeping of the boat didnot amaze me. The boat has a flat hull and it naturally bumps at waves from bow. But yes, the boat reached to 27 knots, comfortably. It has a very comfortable cruise range between 10 to 16 knots, which is not the case with the planing boats.
What I liked:
- It was a cloudy and a bit of rainy day. It was great pleasure to drive from the helm, with the very wide view. This, we are not used to from planing hulls as the aerodynamic inclining of the planing boats’ windshield gives us a narrow band of view.
- I loved the engine room. Lots of space, everything well organized. Especially the chrome safety bars around the engines were very well planned. I am always cautious when I am walking between the engines, especially when they are hot. Also I don’t feel good when the water pump guy walks between the engines carelessly and turn off a valve with his back while he is servicing the pump. These bars fully protect from both of these scenarios and I really liked it.
- The master bedroom is very wide and comfy (this comment comes from someone who currently owns a 70 footer). The beam is very wide (5.90 meters - my P64 was only 5.03 m) and this can easily be felt at the master bedroom.
- Usually these type of boats have some kind of “heavier” design. This one has quite sleek and modern design that we are used to seeing at planing hull boats.
- The “square” shape of SD hull really provides a lot of additional space when compared to planing hull boats. This is felt especially at the front VIP cabin, due to the bow design as you may guess.
What I didn’t like:
- The enclosed kitchen (important note: enclosed kitchen is an option. Standard option is just open kitchen): I think these sizes are still not big enough to have an enclosed kitchen. The boat loses from its sociability. But I have to respect the owners who live with their maids/cooks, who do not wish to interact with them. I am not one of them for sure.
- The electrically freezing kitchen windows: This is a new trend at the yachts but, for me it is just a meaningless toy. First of all, it doesn’t work well. When it is powered, it is really frozen and you cannot see behind. But when it is deactivated, it is never as clear as a normal glass. Additionally the person in the kitchen looks like a fish at a mega aquarium.
This is when the kitchen glasses are frozen:
And this is when they are not frozen. You can see that the window at the left side is still not clear as a normal glass:
- Hidden anchor (important note: this was an option as well): As you may see from the below youtube clip, it is a very cool option. When closed, it provides a very neat and clear bow area. However, I am not very sure if I would like to have such an important part of a boat bound to a complicated deploying system. How many times I had silly problems with pasarellas or swimming platforms, which are hydraulic+mechanic systems as well. What if something goes wrong with the hydraulic pump or another part of the anchor deployment system? I wouldn’t go for this option neither with this boat, nor with another one.
What could be better:
- The interior finishing level of the boat is very good. This yard has been building several models for Azimut in the last 10 years (and still the Azimut Magellano 43). Therefore the finishing level is Azimut level. However, somehow it misses the “Woow” feeling of an Azimut or of the other major stylish yards. The missing part is mainly with the choice of textiles. Italian or British yards are much more brave in choosing new fabrics, new colors, etc. They can do it, because they are the trend setters of the sector. Any new yard to the market has to be more conservative and as a result, they cannot reach to the effect level of an Azimut or a SS or the other trend setters. This is what you feel at the Sirena.
Would I consider buying it?:
- Yes, it is a serious option, when I will plan to change my boat. But in order to choose this boat, my main motive would be “having a stylish boat with lower fuel costs”. Otherwise, I would prefer to have a planing boat as long as I am able to afford the fuel bill. It is a personal choice of course. However, for any rational mind, Sirena or other modern SD boats are serious options.
These are the main thing that I would like to report. Please feel free to revert for any questions, from here of from PM.
Thanks for your interest.
Eren
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D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Re: An invitation to sea trial of brand new Sirena 64 trawler!��
Thanks for your report, Eren. The sentence that jumped out at me was the one above. The accepted wisdom is that SD hulls with their generally sharper bows are more comfortable in a head sea than planing boats but what you seem to be saying is that with the Sirena 64 this is not the case? Is that correct? What were the sea conditions when you tested the boat?
Bouba
Well-Known Member
Re: An invitation to sea trial of brand new Sirena 64 trawler!��
That hidden anchor! It blew me away, it was like Alien coming out of the deck. If I had one on my 34, I would lose my main cabin but it would be worth it
That hidden anchor! It blew me away, it was like Alien coming out of the deck. If I had one on my 34, I would lose my main cabin but it would be worth it
Eren
Well-Known Member
Re: An invitation to sea trial of brand new Sirena 64 trawler!��
Dear Mike,
Well, OK, I should have been more clear with that. The boat was definitely cutting into the waves much better than a P hull. However please take into consideration that this boat can cruise with upto 27 knots. After a certain velocity, the hull is planing and at that time you may feel the waves hitting the hull, even though as not hard as it is at a P hull. May be my expectations were too high. There were around 3-4 Beaufort conditions.
Dear Mike,
Well, OK, I should have been more clear with that. The boat was definitely cutting into the waves much better than a P hull. However please take into consideration that this boat can cruise with upto 27 knots. After a certain velocity, the hull is planing and at that time you may feel the waves hitting the hull, even though as not hard as it is at a P hull. May be my expectations were too high. There were around 3-4 Beaufort conditions.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Re: An invitation to sea trial of brand new Sirena 64 trawler!��
Nah its a piece of useless bling because it would let you down just at the moment you need it the most like when your engines fail when you're half a mile off a lee shore and you desperately need to get the anchor down. To me its an answer to a question nobody is asking especially on what is supposed to be a practical seagoing boat. Just IMHO
Nah its a piece of useless bling because it would let you down just at the moment you need it the most like when your engines fail when you're half a mile off a lee shore and you desperately need to get the anchor down. To me its an answer to a question nobody is asking especially on what is supposed to be a practical seagoing boat. Just IMHO
Eren
Well-Known Member
Re: An invitation to sea trial of brand new Sirena 64 trawler!��
Excuse me for my ignorance but, even though I spend minimum 1-2 hours for reading about boats everyday, I had never heard of such a hidden anchor setup. I also remember MapisM mentioning about the boat not having an anchor during the photo shootings. So I believe that this has been a first view of such a feature for most of us. I think this time Sirena had been the trend setter.
Excuse me for my ignorance but, even though I spend minimum 1-2 hours for reading about boats everyday, I had never heard of such a hidden anchor setup. I also remember MapisM mentioning about the boat not having an anchor during the photo shootings. So I believe that this has been a first view of such a feature for most of us. I think this time Sirena had been the trend setter.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Re: An invitation to sea trial of brand new Sirena 64 trawler!��
I suppose the $64k question is which would you rather be in when you're ploughing into a big head sea, the Sirena or your Sunseeker M70?
I suppose the $64k question is which would you rather be in when you're ploughing into a big head sea, the Sirena or your Sunseeker M70?
Eren
Well-Known Member
Re: An invitation to sea trial of brand new Sirena 64 trawler!��
+1
Nah its a piece of useless bling because it would let you down just at the moment you need it the most like when your engines fail when you're half a mile off a lee shore and you desperately need to get the anchor down. To me its an answer to a question nobody is asking especially on what is supposed to be a practical seagoing boat. Just IMHO
+1
Bouba
Well-Known Member
Re: An invitation to sea trial of brand new Sirena 64 trawler!��
I had a little bit of a déjà vu moment when i saw your very spectacular video, i think I have seen them on sailing yachts but not on that epic scale (or one so slow). But I agree it not only a waste of time I think it's dangerous
Eren
Well-Known Member
Re: An invitation to sea trial of brand new Sirena 64 trawler!��
As always, it is give and take. Yes, Sirena would definitely be better at heavy seas. However how many times we see such conditions? And if you slow down at such seas, P hull also gets you out of there. I think there is no "one correct answer" for this debate. When I am onboard my SS, she urges me to get the Bacardi bottle and prepare the mohito and turn on the music. When I think about myself at a semi displacement boat, I see myself with a coffee mug at helm at a quiet cruising morning. Both pictures are good, but for now, I prefer the mohito !
As always, it is give and take. Yes, Sirena would definitely be better at heavy seas. However how many times we see such conditions? And if you slow down at such seas, P hull also gets you out of there. I think there is no "one correct answer" for this debate. When I am onboard my SS, she urges me to get the Bacardi bottle and prepare the mohito and turn on the music. When I think about myself at a semi displacement boat, I see myself with a coffee mug at helm at a quiet cruising morning. Both pictures are good, but for now, I prefer the mohito !
Bouba
Well-Known Member
Re: An invitation to sea trial of brand new Sirena 64 trawler!��
I guess I see myself as a bit salty on my trawler but this big Sirena looks more superyacht than fishy. And 27 knots on an SD! I suspect they have invented a new hull form somewhere past a SD but not quite a P. An incredible boat
Eren
Well-Known Member
Re: An invitation to sea trial of brand new Sirena 64 trawler!��
I fully agree that the boat is incredible. It is an exciting entry to the market with a sleek design, good price tag and a top speed of 27 knots that the other SD hulls that may not even come close. A big gem for the ones who are heading for that direction.
I fully agree that the boat is incredible. It is an exciting entry to the market with a sleek design, good price tag and a top speed of 27 knots that the other SD hulls that may not even come close. A big gem for the ones who are heading for that direction.