Americas Cup 37 about to commence

[bedouin]

Didn’t Sir Ben Ainslie crew for the Americans at one point?

Yes - Oracle were losing 8-1 in a first to nine series so they brought Ben in as tactician. Ended up winning 9-8. While not the only factor, Ben's tactical skills were a key part of that.

 

[14K478]

This is the history of the British challenges for the “America”’s Cup under the “best of seven” rule:

1964:

The Royal Thames Yacht Club challenger “Sovereign”, designed by David Boyd, lost 4:0 to the NYYC defender “Constellation”, designed by Sparkman and Stephens.

1958:

The Royal Yacht Squadron challenger “Sceptre”, designed by David Boyd, lost 4:0 to the NYYC defender “Columbia”, designed by Sparkman and Stephens.

1937:

The Royal Yacht Squadron challenger “Endeavour II”, designed by CE Nicholson, lost 4:0 to the NYYC defender “Ranger”, designed by Starling Burgess and Olin Stephens.

1933:

The Royal Yacht Squadron challenger “Endeavour”, designed by CE Nicholson, lost 4:2 to the NYYC defender “Rainbow”, designed by Starling Burgess.

1930:

The Royal Ulster Yacht Club challenger “Shamrock V”, designed by CE Nicholson, lost 4:0 to the NYYC defender “Enterprise”, designed by Starling Burgess.

So at the moment “Britannia” is doing better than any British challenger for sixty years, and if she were to win a race she would become the most successful British challenger for ninety years.

 

[bedouin]

When did they change the rules to remove the requirement that the challenger had to sail to the venue?

 

[14K478]

When did they change the rules to remove the requirement that the challenger had to sail to the venue?

It was removed as part of the changes made to permit challenges under the twelve metre IYRU rule in the 1950s.

There was a long history of challengers wanting to challenge in smaller boats.

Sir Thomas Lipton wanted the NYYC to accept challenges under Herreshoff’s Universal Rule long before they did so; they ran their own regattas under the Universal Rule, but insisted on keeping the Seawanhaka Rule (basically a version of Dixon Kemp’s Length and Sail Area Rule) for the Cup:

Rating = LWL + sq root of SA
___________________________
2

The LWL was stipulated as 90ft for the America’s Cup, and there was a draconian penalty for exceeding the 90ft waterline in which the actual excess over 90ft was doubled.

This resulted in challenging boats like the Valkyries and the first three Shamrocks, and in defenders like the eponymous Defender, Colombia (which defended twice) and ultimately the monster Reliance, , very lightly built and just able to hold together for a race series.

The NYYC eventually accepted a challenge from the Royal Ulster in the the Universal Rule, but the 1920 challenge, the last under the best of five rule, was sailed on handicap.

In 1930 Sir Thomas finally persuaded the NYYC to accept a challenge in the J class of the Universal Rule, allowing level rating racing, and requiring both boats to be classed by Lloyds Register, thus preventing the defender being built lighter than the challenger.

After these changes were made, essentially making it possible for the challenger to win, Sir Thomas was heard to say, “I really believe that the Americans will not mind if I win, now.”

 

[bedouin]

It was removed as part of the changes made to permit challenges under the twelve metre IYRU rule in the 1950s.

There was a long history of challengers wanting to challenge in smaller boats.

Sir Thomas Lipton wanted the NYYC to accept challenges under Herreshoff’s Universal Rule long before they did so; they ran their own regattas under the Universal Rule but insisted on keeping the Seawanhaka Rule (basically a version of Dixon Kemp’s Length and Sail Area Rule) for the Cup. This resulted in boats like the Valkyries and the first three Shamrocks and ultimately the monster Reliance, very lightly built and just able to hold together for a race series.

The NYYC eventually accepted a challenge from the Royal Ulster in the J class of the Universal Rule.

And we are now back to building boats purely to contest the America's Cup - I see no chance of these AC75s having any life at all outside the LV / AC - which is a shame.

While they are very exciting to watch they now have almost nothing in common with the sort of boats most of us sail - I doubt if I could complete a single windward leg in the time it takes them to do 8 legs.

 

[Robin]

are the ac40s identical or just built to a rule?

 

[bedouin]

are the ac40s identical or just built to a rule?

I think the hulls and foils are identical - but they are allowed some difference in sails

 

[dunedin]

are the ac40s identical or just built to a rule?

Not sure but think they are one designs, unlike the full fat AC boats

 

[Chiara’s slave]

And we are now back to building boats purely to contest the America's Cup - I see no chance of these AC75s having any life at all outside the LV / AC - which is a shame.

While they are very exciting to watch they now have almost nothing in common with the sort of boats most of us sail - I doubt if I could complete a single windward leg in the time it takes them to do 8 legs.

I think we’d get through the gate Just the one.

 

[dunedin]

And we are now back to building boats purely to contest the America's Cup - I see no chance of these AC75s having any life at all outside the LV / AC - which is a shame.

While they are very exciting to watch they now have almost nothing in common with the sort of boats most of us sail - I doubt if I could complete a single windward leg in the time it takes them to do 8 legs.

The Americas Cup boats have never been anything that the average boater would sail - the J Class was a dedicated race boat for the super wealthy, so nothing new.
But just like none of us would want a second hand Formula 1 car to drive to the shops, there is a lot of technology trickle down from these racing machines - both cars and boats.
But it does depend a bit on your definition of “most of us”. Clearly little in common with, and little technology trickle down, to somebody sailing a 40 year old cruiser. But the previous generation of foiling catamarans had lot of influence in some quarters. And foils are increasingly relevant in the racing classes - in 3 of the Olympic sailing events, and increasing number of dinghy classes plus offshore racers.

Not new of course. Currently reading a book about the Cheers project for the 1968 OSTAR - and noticed that Dick Newick mentioned that he had briefly considered a foiling multihull back in 1967, but the technology of the day wouldn’t have made it able to be used safely long distance single handed (with no electronics etc).

 

[14K478]

I watch the development of sailing foiling with a corner of my mind wondering about possible commercial applications in a carbon dioxide restricted future.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I watch the development of sailing foiling with a corner of my mind wondering about possible commercial applications in a carbon dioxide restricted future.

Can you capture carbon in fibre form? More seriously, it has massive fuel saving potential, if the initial costs aren’t too great to make it viable. Red Funnel have commissioned a foiling ferry already.

 

[dunedin]

I watch the development of sailing foiling with a corner of my mind wondering about possible commercial applications in a carbon dioxide restricted future.

Electric hydrofoil boat - Leisure C-8 Product page

 

[DoubleEnder]

If. If If. IF Britannia wins the Cup, where would the next competition take place? Would it necessarily be in UK waters or would they just put it out to tender, see which venue might be most generous?

 

[14K478]

If. If If. IF Britannia wins the Cup, where would the next competition take place? Would it necessarily be in UK waters or would they just put it out to tender, see which venue might be most generous?

Let’s not get carried away.

The New Zealanders are very, very, good.

Sir Thomas Lipton won two races, one of which he didn’t count because the defender’s main halyard shackle broke. Sir Thomas Sopwith won two races.

Let’s remember that the C.O. of the RNZN survey ship which managed to turn itself into an additional reef is English and ex RN.

If we win a race, that will be good.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

If. If If. IF Britannia wins the Cup, where would the next competition take place? Would it necessarily be in UK waters or would they just put it out to tender, see which venue might be most generous?

I doubt if the Squadron would hold it anywhere but GB. And no need to really. The only issue might be wind, we tend to have a lot of it or hardly anything.

 

[bedouin]

It;s a tricky event to host, you need pretty good shore-side facilities and a sailing area with reliable wind and not too much sea (assuming they are going for the AC75s again).

 

[Chiara’s slave]

It;s a tricky event to host, you need pretty good shore-side facilities and a sailing area with reliable wind and not too much sea (assuming they are going for the AC75s again).

Having invested all that dosh in developing them, would Jim Ratcliffe and his ilk stand for changing the boat? Portland or Portsmouth might be contender locations, I can’t see Cowes making the grade sadly

 

[Buck Turgidson]

My little fantasy would be we win and go back to the original rules and course. Now that would be a laugh!

 

[Chiara’s slave]

My little fantasy would be we win and go back to the original rules and course. Now that would be a laugh!

I’ll be selling tickets. They'd be approaching 3/4 distance here.