Am I the only person out there who loves Trader?????

[maybh1]

As a very proud Trader owner I was astonished to be stopped on the marina at the weekend and asked if I had read the posts about Trader from the guy that was trying to put him out of business. I picked up the threads from last week and felt that as a satisfied Trader owner I would like to add my two pennyworth.


Whilst I have every sympathy with Gludy over his problems with his Trader can I say that as a Trader owner for the best part of six and a half years I love my boat to pieces. I have spend the last 20 years boating and can say that, unfortunately, his story is nothing new. I can think of at least three close aquaintances over the years who have purchased very different boats from different manufacturers and sorely regreted it.

From the very start of our relationship with Trader we received nothing but help and courtesy from Tony Chappel and his staff. I can honestly say that any problems were attended to immediately and without question.

Purchasing the Trader was the biggest thing we have ever done and my husband was determined that it would be a "happy"process. Sure there were problems - (mainly down to Catterpillar and not Trader but they were all amicably sorted out). She is a sturdy boat and surefooted in heavy weather. Trader went out of their way to make sure we had the boat we wanted (we went to buy a 47 and came away with a 44 on Tony Chappels advice). The boat was adapted (all at no extra cost) to make sure we had a boat to suit us and I think we have one of the finest 44 footers afloat.

In fact, we are so happy with our Trader experience, that we have every intention of taking the first possible trial run on the new 42 when she arrives in December - and the chances are that we may purchase one if we like it enough simply because we want to go places that our current Trader wont fit.

Gludy, I wish you every success with your quest to get your problems resolved but I feel that in fairness to Trader there must be many, many people happy with both Trader boat and service out there.

 

[duncan]

welcome to the forum and thanks for the informative post.
I am sure you will appreciate that it's difficult to put a value on your contribution as long as you remain anoymous but over time, and as people get to know you, it's value will increase!

You make a good point about it not being unusual for both major and minor issues to emerge in relation to a new boat; it's apoint that get discussed here often (unfortunately).

The conclusions we generally agree upon is that as long as the same things don't keep failing from a particular manufacturer the real measure is 'what happens next?' when the issues and problems emerge. The best manufacturers will put more effort into resolving problems with a new delivery than in selling their next boat - they realise the former is the fastest way to achieve the latter! The poor ones result in you being tied up with distributors/sales organisations/etc etc etc but nothing actually gets done. The very worst agree quickly up front, which disarms you, but you end up compromising in order to actually get to use your (normally expensive) purchase.............

I haven't been very active in the threads on here but I have had the opportunity to look around Gludy's boat 'early day's' and it was the engineering issues that struck me the most - these were a huge surprise to me on a boat of this size and value from a manufacturer I had understood to be 'impressive'.

 

[andyball]

[ QUOTE ]
Re: Am I the only person out there who loves Trader?????

[/ QUOTE ]

No you're not - Gludy loved the idea of one & was just so excited about seeing his new boat as the date for delivery to the UK drew nearer.

I love the idea of them too & without all the problems no doubt they'd be perfectly adequate boats.


What disturbs me the most is the sheer number of construction defects of a substantial & serious nature - Trader say they have " a man in Taiwan" keeping an eye on things, but it's is so hard to believe that, given the nature of Ocean Deep. Of course, almost any boat will have it's share of the odd screw being forgotten, a bit of joinery being not quite up to scratch etc etc - that's normal imo. But how a boat can be 'finished', yet come without the baffles to stop water entering the engine room roof is beyond me.

How can a builder worthy of the least respect fail to make the engine ,gearbox & thrust assy beds correctly? allow it to be shipped with the drivetrain seriously mis-aligned & knowing that a serious vibration was present? Forget to use locknuts or nylocs on the rudder post clamps? create a keel, supposedly specifically for drying out on that deforms under modest loads?

& how can the yard in Emsworth drag Ocean Deep to London with hydraulic leaks so serious that the higher of two bilge alarms go off? fail to address the vibration problem before the trip? Fit the arches & rails & crane supports so badly that dozens of bolts,nuts & screws were not even finger tight?


I won't go on - all these things ( & many more not mentioned) together mean that I could have no confidence at all in a Trader. But yes, I love the notion of one & what it could do if made properly - Ocean Deep picks up her skirts & accelerates at an indecent rate for her size.

I have seen the charm, help and courtesy first-hand & it does seem impressive - I am at a loss to explain how this can Jekyll & Hyde itself into the treatment I have seen meted out to Gludy. There must be something funny in the water at Emsworth /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Jobs_a_ good_ un]

You have no connection with trader then or Tony Chappel ?

 

[totopalm]

Well are not you the lucky one. I do not know if you have been following the Gludy post, but he has been treated
disgracefully, not just the quality of the work, but worst
of all the way he has been ignored by the Company
I imagine they know they are going to get a bad time
in court, so are keeping quiet less they implicate
themselves further.
If i was Gludy i would say "See you in court"

 

[Whitelighter]

I think it is good that we have at least one happy owner presenting their experience on here. That said, I truely hope that you are an independant, genuine happy owner that has found their way here by way of a conversation in your marina.

While I think it is highly likely that Tarquin have happy satisfied customers, it is how a company responds to major problems rather than how they deal with happy owners that is of ultimate importance.

Life would be very easy if all we had to do in business was look after people when things go well. It's manufacturing, building from scratch and no reasonable person, and I include Paul in that, would not understand that sometimes mistakes happen and things go wrong. It is how the problems are delt with that sets a good company out from a very bad one.

In this case it seems that Tarquin don't want to face the problems and it is that which is so worrying. The faults were there, and that is one issue, but if Tarquin had simply acknowledged the issues, put their hands up and agreed to try their best to resolve the issues I suspect this affair would be a long, long way from going to court, and both parties would be a lot happier.

The old saying that it takes 100 happy customers to build a good reputation, but only a handful to ruin it completely is absolutely true. Rightly or wrongly, human nature is to shout loudest when we feel we have been duped, and sadly I think Tarquin will suffer because of their apparent unwillingness confront the issue.

 

[maybh1]

Duncan

Sorry - did not mean to be anonymous. You will see that my post was my first and was done in a hurry this morning.

I am prepared to be counted as a happy Trader owner. I am May and my boat is Seadweller and anyone who wants to see how right Trader can get it is more than welcome to come and have a look at her at Royal Clarence Marina in Gosport!!

 

[maybh1]

In answer to Sami - I have asbolutely NO connection to with either Trader or Tony Chappel apart from being happy with both product and customer service

Whilst I totally understand Gludys stance and am horrified that he has spent so much money and is so very unhappy with his boat due to Trader not addressing his problems I can only state what I know and that is that buying and owning a Trader has been a very happy experience for me.

 

[Gludy]

I have fully understood what you have stated.

I bought a Trader for the same reasons. When it all works I will like it.

In my case we are talking about hundreds of faults - over the last 11 months we have come a long way in fixing faults, after all the engines are now attached to the boat, the auto saltwater engine spary system has been disabled, etc. However month after month I have not been getting a response from tarder and Trader have not answered my points so 11 months down the road I have major issues like the need for a new keel that Trader have not accepted to date.

I need to ask a question - was your Trader a new one? What model is it and what year?

As I have already stated, I know of a number of happy Trader owners who have purchased Traders from the dealer in Penarth, who I have a lot of respect for. I am not against Traders as boats - I spent £1m buying one!

"Gludy, I wish you every success with your quest to get your problems resolved but I feel that in fairness to Trader there must be many, many people happy with both Trader boat and service out there. "

All I can report is as I find and that is many angry customers. I can assure you that my list of major problems was not of my doing, so the argument that somehow I am being fussym that I beleive Trader tries to push, does not hold weight. Whgat does hold weight is how a company handles its product problems - that is the real test and in that test tarquin have failed miserably with me.

As a matter of interest, whilst I am sure your testimonail is truthfull - a fact I do not dispute, has Tony Chappell asked you to post this testimonial?

 

[DAKA]

I have sent you a PM , please click on the flashing red flag above.

thanks

Pete

 

[maybh1]

Gludy

My Boat is a Trader 44, Build 1999 commissioned 2000. purchased new by us.

As to whether Tony Chappel asked me to post this testimonial the answer is ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

Enough people that both run this site and post on it know me well enough to be honest and truthfull and also to be happy with Trader.

I have not entered into this discussion to have my integrity called into question - only to state what I know

 

[Gludy]

just for the record I did not dispute the truthfullness of your statement nor your integrity. There must be some happy customers after all and you to answer your opening question - there must be more you cannot be alone out there - I toitally accept that.

How long after the arrival of your boat at emsworth was it ready to take away?

 

[duncan]

thank you - and doubly welcome!

 

[fireball]

May
Please continue to contribute to this and other forums - as Ducan said in his reply - thanks - very informative, but you can see why your response will initially be treated with suspicion.
I don't doubt your claim to having an excellent boat from Trader - they must have produced some good boats to get the name to start with and if all they produced was rubbish then the good reputation would quickly disappear down the drain, which is the way it is going with the on-going saga with Gludy.

IMO The best resolution here is for Trader & Gludy to come to a suitable resolve (hopefully out of court) with Gludy having the boat he paid for - Trader can then come away with some valuable lessons and hopefully give consistent good service to all their customers - we know there are always going to be snags - the Smeg cooker not working - ok - fair enough, DOA, but it should just be replaced with no fuss.

 

[maybh1]

Gludy

Our boat arrived in November 1999. We were in no hurry to take her away as we had a winter of heavy committments.

Trader allowed us to keep her at Emsworth (free of charge) till April 2000 if my memory serves me correctly . In that time they did various jobs like fitting electronics etc and we were able to stay on the boat at the weekends.

There were various problems with the boat itself but I can honestly say that ALL of them were addressed as and when we discovered them.

Initially we had problems with our starboard engine but we can hardly blame Trader for that. Catterpillar bent over backwards to put the engine right and it has run sweetly ever since

We have done countless cruises in company with MBM and anyone who met us will I am sure will attest to the fact that we were very satisfied Trader customers.

I have viewed the pictures of the problems with your boat and am horrified. Had I spent a million pounds and been presented with half of what your pictures show then the boat would have gone back to the yard without delay or I would have rejected it as unfit for use.

Did you not agree a retainer on the price of the boat which would then only be paid to Trader when the boat was accepted by you and the snagging list had been completed?

I truly have every sympathy for you and I have no way of explaining why Trader released your boat in such a state or are acting as you say but I go back to my original comment that our experience was only good

 

[Gludy]

Fireball
My wish is that Trader and I concentrate on dealing with the issues and as you say things like the Smeg cooker which has never worked properly should be replaced - I should not have to wait 5 months to be informed that its is Smegs problem not Traders. This issue drives my partner mad as she gets into real problems trying to use it. The problem is that to date they have not agreed these things even though the issues are very black and white.


So there are three aspects to sorting out the mess:-

1. Discussion on the fault list to try and reach agreement on the list of faults they accept liability foir with agreed date schedule etc. Hopefully this is ongoing starting today. If we cannot agree then I will have to take legal action.

2. Agreement on my expenses to date that I have been forced to occur in order to expose the faults. The principle can be accepted on this and I am addressing a message directly to Tony Chappell on this. Again legal action if they do not agree.

3. Compensation for the lack of use of the boat that cost me tens of thousands whilst i could not use it. This can only really be settled with the lawyers and then legal action if agreement cannot be reached.

I do detect a bit of a drive from Trader to try and sort this out now. I hope that feeling is true and that it can be resolved with them. However, because of past experiences I simply cannot let the pressure drop.

No matter what this is not a proud moment for Trader, they have delivered to me a deplorable boat in a terrble condition and njot even bothered to find the faults themselves leaving it to me to persevere and battle through so that even 11 months later I still do not have full use of the boat.

 

[Gludy]

Maybh1
Thank you for those comments.

I wish I could reject the boat, the problem is that Tarquin has at best only about assets equivalent to 1/3rd the value of my boat and rejection would expose me into a situation where I could lose the boat and all my money. On legal advice, I had no choice but to protect myself from that situation.

The net value of the company is about £300k according to the last accounts I have seen and that value includes a stock value of about the same which is qualified as never being seen by the auditor - there is therefore a possibility that their net assets are nothing.

I will always get a companies accounts before buying a boat in the future!

I had no retainer - that was stupid but I really did trust them. This makes Tony Chappell’s comments about not paying for the boat even more distasteful to me!!

In effect I really made a huge mistake in trusting this company and I am not scared to admit it. What I think they are only just beginning to accept is that like many others, I will not go away - I will stick with this to the very end and regardless of cost.

It has become a great boating soap opera that must be of interest to the trade and public alike. I really felt I was left with no choice on the matter.

My boat arrived in Swansea about May 16th - the work on the missing baffles and brackets was, at least according to Trader, finished a few weeks ago in October. I think even you understand just how extreme my case is both for problems exposed and the manner in which they have been dealt with.

You would be welcome to look over my boat anytime you are near to Swansea

 

[Jim44]

If he is such a great bloke and thinks someone is trying to put him out of business why doesnt he do something about it??!!!

All he has to do is talk to Gludy....simple

Then agree which bits he is prepared to mend and do the work.

Then go to court to resolve outstanding items, who ever wins in court wins and both get on with their lives.

His actions have caused his own problems. If there was a will this all could be resolved by Xmas and everyone would be happy.

P.S. It not too late for him to turn this customer round IMHO, but it would take alot of work, is he prepared to do that for his business?? or just spinelessly winging round marina to his 1 happy customer.

Bad service make me mad!!!!

 

[maybh1]

Gludy

Thanks for the invite. If ever we are in your neck of the woods we will certainly call in and see you and your boat and compare notes.

Whatever happens - DO NOT - let this sour your enjoyment of your lovely boat when she is up and running properly.

I believe that Traders are a great boat and although ours is only a comparative tiddler to yours we have huge pride in her.

It would be a pity if all these problems ruined the ownership of your beautifull boat for you. When they are all resolved you need to put them firmly behind you and just enjoy what I am sure will be a fantastic vessel.

We all get older and wiser and after your experience I personally will now insist on a retainer wether I purchased a new Trader or any other boat

 

[Gludy]

Your advice is of course spot on and will be taken.

I just long for the moment when it is all working. All could be resolved by Xmas if there was a will to do it ........ the next few days will tell.

Even if we can reduce the number of points disputed it would help!!!