Am I being too ambitious

[Hoss]

I am coming to the end of a 7 ½ year IT contract during which time I have nearly paid off the mortgage on my London flat. I am planning to rent out the flat, and liveaboard for a couple of years living off the rental as much as possible. I have no sailing experience (except for a day out on my ex-boss’s yacht and a few day fishing trips), however it has a been a life-long dream to sail for an extended period of time. I am 38 years old and would be single-handed (no SHMBO for me). I would like to do the following:-

Buy Boat and fit boat + 2 years maintenance within a budget of £100,000.
Sail the med for 3-6 months getting more sailing experience.
Cross the pond and sail the US east coast and Caribbean for 6 - 12 months.
Return to the Med for 3-6 months, during which time I would probably sell the boat.
Return to work and join the rat race if I haven’t found another way to support myself on my travels.

Questions are as follows:-

1) Am I being a bit ambitious to think that if I was to complete a competent crew and day skipper course I would be in a position to start taking out a yacht singlehanded in the med and learn the ropes on my own from there? and if not what sort and length of further training do you suggest?
2) Is my budget of £100,000 for the boat and maintenance also a bit ambitious?


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[AndrewB]

Yes, you are.

A practical consideration is that no way are you going to get insurance for long-distance or Mediterranean solo sailing with your experience. No, you cannot possibly afford the cost when you prang some litigatious American yachtsman. And what's more, you won't be allowed into any marina and even certain European countries without.

Bear in mind that despite the romance of long distance solo sailing, it is not only demanding but something that only a very few even experienced yachtsmen come to enjoy.

But do buy a starter yacht for £20,000, join a club, and sail it modestly around the South Coast for a season. Then you can make an assessment if you really want to plunge two years and your life savings into what at present is a fanciful ambition. Approached cautiously, you still may.

 

[charles_reed]

Your proposals are feasible

but excessively energetic.

1. You'll find the constant sailing that you've set yourself, both exhausting and boring. In the time you've allowed yourself you could about half do the med justice.
2. You'll not get insurance cover for a transoceanic voyages unless you have at least 3 in the crew, and your relative lack of experience might make cover difficult to get in any case.
3. The finances are about right and you'll be able to exist on the rental income from your London flat.

I would be far more cautious about your assumption that you're going to enjoy the liveboard life and sailing and would suggest chartering or signing on as crew to check its enjoyability.

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[roly_voya]

I would suggest that a major bit you have missed is prparing the boat. To get a new boat right for a transatlantic solo passage would probably take a full season which blows a big hole in your travel time. Have you though about doing a crossing as crew either on a yacht or one of the sail training ships?

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[Ric]

Well your timetable is way over-ambitious. Even if you achieve it, you won't enjoy it.

Set your sights lower. Why not just set off and see how you get on? Far better to tell friends and family that you are going off to explore the channel islands, then carry on, rather than announcing you are going to sail around the world and then not get further than the channel islands.

The rest is relatively feasbile. With your budget you can buy an old but well built 32 footer fit her out with new sails, electronics, wind-generators, solar panels, hot water and other stuff you need for live aboard.

I am surprised at others comments that you might not get insurance. I had very little experience when I bought my boat, and I set off single-handed around the Med full insured. Mind you, that was with a French flag and french insurance - maybe it is harder in UK?

If I were in your position, I would just come out to the Med and buy a boat already down here, then set off sailing around the Med for a couple of years. There is loads to do and see here. Also, the boats for sale here are better kitted out for warm weather than boats for sale in the UK - ie they already have essential stuff like bimini covers, bathing platforms, forward opening hatches, opening portholes below deckline etc.

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[Sunnyseeker]

Sounds OK to me, we bought a boat, two weeks later had her lifted for a few jobs, got her coded so we could do charter work, put her back in the water then headed off to Spain...10,000 miles later we sold her back in UK.
There are many boats out cruising with very little experience before they set off, its the best way to learn. As another post said don't set a shedule, you should never feel under pressure to move on, thats when you are tempted to take chances, and as we found the Spanish coast was one of our favourite places, along with the Azores...
Buy a boat, and go...New standing rigging a good rudder, reasonable sails and a big anchor, and you should be fine, enjoy the trip.

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[Gerry]

We started by buying a boat already on the Algarve, super sailing and gnerally clement weather. Lots of interesting places to cruise to, up the river Guardiana, Culatra, Alvor etc. Learn as you cruise and I would recommend budgeting for a week or two own boat tuition , invaluable with a new boat.Ferro can be an excellent buy and there are some super examples out there.
We started 4 years ago, and now still live aboard! It continues to be a fantastic challenging experience BUT you will never want to return to your old life! We have sailed to many places since our initial period in the Algarve but those first six months gave us a duperb start.
I agree with some of the other posts, don't set massive itineries. Its unlikely you will keep to them . It really is a case of travelling where yje wind blows you and having the sense to stay safe if conditions are adverse.
Good Luck!

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[tcm]

Re: possibly

just doing a starter course won't be enough imho. Get someone along as instructor initially, on the boat, then someone else along as crew, perhaps. This partly relies on you getting the right boat, somehow. You do need to make friends to help and advise a bit - whole load easier and a whole load more enjoyable.

Have you done lots of travelling alone? A work collegue went aroudn France and came back with lots of pix of the same bicycle leaning aginst different walls, hedges etc. One can end up setting targets for the hell of it - testing yourself and giving "purpose" rather than enjoying the trip which is more likely with one or more people along. I am fairly exp at boating, but don't thinik i wd really enjoy lone sailing - except for relatively well-defined thing, race i suppose, a few weeks tops. But that's me, not you.

Boatwise, all boats are not quite right. If planning sunny climes, buy the boat there as others suggest, cheaper too. Prices are higher in the uk, partly cos it's an island, partly cos there are high-priced houses. So praps sell in the UK? i met a chap in majorca whose hobby was to arrive in the med, buy a boat, and fix it up on the way back to the uk, bit of sanding and varnishing etc. think he had done four already. I wd spend no more than half yr boat budget on the boat, and if that's all the money you have for two years mebbe a third or less.

Med is nice in sumer months, but can be unpredictable, menacing and dangerous in winter. General plan is to hang around in the med till July, and then beetle off towards the canaries to arrive there end august, hang around there then cross to carib end november, possibly with the atlantic rally (ARC).. then carib til following may/june and return...but your post indicates you don't know this - yet it's a lifelong dream?... I mean - i haven't done it, and i can't say it's a "lifelong" dream really, but you need to know a fair old lump of info as well as getting enough experience to know a particular boat, or i suppose any boat at all.

Lots of the problems in sailing ( and in other activities I suppose) arise and people say they did this or that, and what could i do or what you you do - and the answer is often "i wouldn't have been there doing that at that time, so the problem just wouldn't have arisen" and for that reason i agree with AB that unless you secretly have pored over jimmy cornell and a dozen or more other relevant tomes, you are being too ambitious - at the moment - unless you know lotw more than you are telling us.

imho








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[snowleopard]

1. your budget for the boat is generous. i would go for something a bit older rather than gleaming white and nearly new, then it won't break your heart when (not if) you scrape it.

2. your big hurdle is the experience issue. a crash course will get you part of the way but taking someone experienced along with you for the early stages is, IMHO, vital.

3. different people cope with singlehanding in different ways, some thrive, others don't. the danger is that when times are bad you will become totally put off sailing. singlehanders have no one to discuss problems with, no one to take a watch while crossing shipping lanes and no one to pick up a mooring while you steer. most jobs are far easier with two. don't underestimate how frightening it can be out there at times, being alone magnifies that. as others have said, insurance will be difficult if not impossible. i managed to get cover for a singlehanded transatlantic but when i made a claim i discovered they had a 'no-pay' policy!

4. don't let us put you off, just work up to it a bit more slowly

5. congratulations on surviving IR35 to get this far ;-)

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[ongolo]

Hi Hoss,

I would suggest you go out and buy two books, one is shane Atkins "SHRIMPY" and the other is "SAILING THE FARM" , by Niemeyer.

Shrimpy startet off without experience and with GBP170,- in his pocket. He sailed for 8 years and got married to a swiss girl on the way. (optional)

It seems to me here, some people apply unwanted standards.

If you go where it is warm, you dont need warm water.

If you buy a boat, it might not need any work on it at all.

As far as insurance and american yacht goes, dont go where american are.

I have said it so often, go to the indian ocean, for get the med.

You can buy a 30ft Muira (designed for the cape to rio) extremely seaworthy boat for less than 15k GBP. You could live a healthy and free life in an aera where no one gives a damn about insurance. You could survive on GBP1,- per day and live like a king on GBP10,- per day.

Buy a boat in South Africa, I can send you a few boat prices by PM and give you addresses you could phone and check out advertisements.

With 100k GBP, you can buy a boat over and over, if you want trouble as everyone else, you must go where everyone else goes.

There was a fellow, posting a similar suggestion in reference to the indian ocean.

But, maybe we should keep this to ourselfs, otherwise one day it will be crowded.

I would like t help you, pm me if you have any question. Might take two days to reply.

regards ongolo


<hr width=100% size=1>So what......... it floats

 

[charles_reed]

The Insurance market

has changed dramatically in the last 3 years.

>30' are being refused insurance outside coastal waters, anyone considered a "bad" risk is finding no takers (an old boat with a novice singlehander would be the epitome of bad risks) and transoceanic cover has so many caveats as to be virtually useless.

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[Hoss]

Dear All,

Thanx for all the excellent advice. Being a complete novice one has absolutley no framework of reference when it comes to what is possible and what is not! therefore it looks like the transatlantic trip looks to be a bit adventureous, notwithstanding the problems with insurance. There is no way I could afford to loose that sort of money. I will be borrowing to pay for the boat.

The advice regarding getting some own boat tuition sounds an excellent Idea as does getting experience by signing on as crew.

My thinking was certainly to buy a boat in the Med and start out from there. Will be keeping my eyes on all material relating to purchasing overseas and hoping it won't be too much of a minefield when the time comes.

With regard to the living aboard lifestyle. The whole point is about getting away from the office orientated life that I have been in for the last 20 odd years during which time it was my aim to put a mortage free roof over my head and which i have now achieved. I believe the time has come in my life when I must do something for the love of it rather than the neccessity of it and it has alway been my dream to liveaboard and sail. Also being the son of a military man we were always moving from place to place and country to country when I a youngster and my home has ever been where I lay my hat. So i have no qualms about leaving London or the UK for that matter (anyway in my view the place hsa been going down the toilet for the last 10 years anyway).

Another question (Just to keep the thread going!!)

As I have said my thing at the moment is to buy a boat in the Med rather than in the UK. (I wouldn't have to get it there) however is there anywhere in the world where boats are significantly cheaper to buy than europe (looking at brokerage websites there dosn't seem to be)! Ongola suggests South Africa anywhere else? If there were I could buy and sail there (the Med was not part of the dream just the sailing).

Also as i will be funding the boat with a loan I would like to minimise depreciation however having searched the net I have been unable to find any details in which years the heaviest depreciation occurs and if this differs with the type of boat any guidance would be gratefully received.

Good luck and happy sailing to you all.

Hoss

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[snowleopard]

cheap boats

are to be found in the places where dreams collapse. panama used to be one of those. i once saw what looked on paper like my ideal boat at an affordable price - in new caledonia!. trouble is the cost of getting there and the difficulty of establishing a valid title in an out-of-the-way place.

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[graham42]

no!
go for it
you can always make more money
but you can make more time
£100k will buy you an excellent boat, perhaps a catamaran, which is kinder on single handers.
experience is better than qualifications
get your day skipper practical, then...bye bye

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[pragmatist]

Re: cheap boats

Canaries too - know of at least one excellent bargain which was the result of a failed dream - must have been a good boat since they sailed it to NZ

<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is an optimist with a boat in the UK