All in one B & G units .. ?

[aevans692]

Hi all

I looked at a boat today it was a beneteau first 285 , I met with the owner and he showed me round , one of his biggest selling points was the fully integrated B&G multi unit ..

my initial thoughts was it looked like a very good bit of kit , but more I thought about it the more I wasn't so sure .. as everything is integrated wind, depth, chart plotter , auto helm, log , ... should the unit fail or glitch out then you would have lost all your instruments ...

Im not against technology , but what at first seemed like a good thing, then seemed like a nightmare waiting to happen, where as if individual modules were used and one should fail you not left with nothing .. ??

I would like my new boat setup for off shore cruising , and this setup just dont seem very sensible to me , and as it happened while looking over the boat the unit had glitched out , he claimed it was likely to be the sun causing it to over heat ,, ..

Was wondering whats peoples thoughts and experiences with these types of combined units .. ?

Cheers . .

 

[vyv_cox]

Not exactly sure what you mean by fully integrated. We have a Zeus2 plotter and 4 Triton instruments, all integrated via NMEA2000. The complete setup is brilliant, although I have many reservations about touch screen plotters on a yacht.

 

[aevans692]

when i mention fully integrated , i mean just that, there was no other instruments , no other interfaces .. So the only way to view wind , depth , plotter was by the means of the B&G screen ..

My concern would be that should something happen to that unit I would loose the use of all the instruments .. It would have been a much better setup, if each instrument had its own display .. the old saying of " putting your eggs in one basket " springs to mind ..

Im sure the B & G stuff as a whole is very good ..

Touch screen on a yacht don't seem too bad , we tend to favour Navionics on the iPad and that works very well

 

[Daverw]

We have all data on chartplotter but also have displays that show wind and more importantly depth. These can also show other data that is on chartplotter ie compass, speed, routing. I would not be comfortable with only a single source. Very easy to add another MFD to the system though

 

[knuterikt]

You. Could install a extra multi function display or just have one spare.

 

[bitbaltic]

Presumably this boat has a set of N2k sensors (wind, depth/speed etc) arranged in a simple backbone with the (one of the Vulcan MFDs?) being the only display for the data. It is simple enough to add whatever extra displays you want to it. A couple of triton heads would give you what you want.

 

[Tranona]

I have a similar system but Garmin and have the plotter plus 2 other MFD displays, one mainly used for the autopilot control and the other for speed/wind/depth. I also have speed, wind, angle and VMG displayed on the plotter, but you can choose what you want.

 

[Neeves]

If you lose the MFD - you are c correct you lose all your instrumentation - but that's why you carry paper charts and keep a rolling log - so you know roughly where you are all of the time. You will need to hand steer - but that's what we all did a few years, or decades, ago.

An alternative is to use one of many commonly owned electronic devices, your phone for example, which will give you position and speed. I assume you have an old fashioned compass.

You don't 'need' wind - you can feel that, watch telltales etc, depth would be nice - but again - that's why you keep your chart work up to date - and stick out where depth is not an issue.

MFD failure is surprisingly uncommon.


Having sounded self righteous - we have a second generation GPS, accurate to 100m! from the late 1980's and a Raymarine MFD from 1999 - both replaced by a Simrad NSS mfd - but the older units are wired in - just in case. Additionally the original autopilot was Raymarine - which is still functional - so we have redundancy (really in case of the scenario of which you fear!). We did not connect the autopilot to the new NSS (bought to be compatible with Broadband radar (the Raymarine unit became irreparable). We also have a wifi interface of the instruments to an iPad - which shows everything the mfd shows and can 'control' the mfd, autopilot excepted.

The strength of the wifi interface is that you can be down below and the crew on deck - and you can see any instrument they can see - and you can 'bring up' whatever data you want.
'

We do carry all the paper charts, Admiralty Pilot books etc.

I would not let the instrumentation you describe become a deal breaker - but I would look for redundancy - and your phone is possibly the cheapest option - though nothing (apart from you or your crew) will replace the loss of an autopilot

Jonathan

 

[aevans692]

I totally agree ..

I normally have some means of backup with me , and yup paper charts ..

but it still seems a bit daft to put all your trust in this one unit , myself I would think its a more sensible option to give yourself the best chances and not rely on just one unit when you can have individual modules ..

you say that mfd failure is uncommon , but while I was there it became glitchy, I dont think it would be my first choice for off shore sailing ..

 

[Neeves]

We have a Pronav GPS, circa 1989, it gives lat and long, speed and a few other bits of data - accurate to about 100m. Its still going strong. Its a first or second generation GPS.

We have a Raymarine MFD, about 20 years old. Still going strong.

We have a Simrad NSS MFD about 6 years old, current primary unit, still going strong.

And we have paper charts.

This forum is not full of people complaining their mfd went down - though the electrics feeding the mfd (nothing to do with the mfd manufacturer) might fail (and that is an issue).

I'd recommend redundancy - but this is useless if the 2 units rely on the same inputs. You need independent power sources (our Pronav will run of a 'AA' battery bank if push comes to shove and has an independent plug in aerial (about the size of a cigarette, remember them?).

MFDs seem reliable, but they are so critical, especially as people become less and less adept at old fashioned navigation (because they so seldom need to use it) - so build in redundancy (and carry paper charts and know how to use them).

The biggest annoyance with MFDs is that buy one and within 6 months a new model comes out with much better bells and whistles - and might even be cheaper - Grrr!

And gear up your phone and iPad to be another fall back.

Jonathan

 

[dolabriform]

Which model of B&G is it?

I have a Vulcan 7 which uses NMEA200, so all the transducers, sensors, AIS are on the NMEA2000 network. I've added two Raymarine ST70's in the cockpit, which pickup and display the data from everything on the network. so I have full redundancy apart from the chart plotter / GPS element.

This could be overcome by adding an NMEA 2000 GPS receiver to the network, but I have an iPAD with Navionics, and paper charts which I keep up to date.

In terms of redundancy, NMEA 2000 is the best option as all the data is available to every display.