AIS & ship’s identity

[t21]

Wouldn't look good? This seems a hardcore argument. In the event shit hits the fan, I prefer to be called by numbers, clear and loud.

It seems there is very different understanding of privacy... I wouldn't bother to start this thread if AIS would be just live pings in VHF range.

Normal VHF procedures use boat name. Yours deliberately hidden. I already know the MMSI of any nearby ship - it's part of the AIS info. Yeah, insurance companies would definitely play hardcore - calling out a bunch of numbers - since when was that VHF procedure

I'd def make sure I had a pic of the screen showing that what seemed to be a MOB device (which is one of few items that shows just MMSI, like you plan, with no boat name, which I think is V rubbish idea...) but which suddenly turns out to be a boat! - I was on my way to help! Or at least investigate why you had an ill-configured AIS unit. Or somebody else may likely do the same, the opposite of what you want?
You are kinda inviting an investigative (unofficial, well meaning, or perhaps otherwise) visit by broadcasting AIS signal but not showing boat name.
On mojo I have configured AIS name with "MOJO - solo sailor" which might be an idea? But it still broadcasts the mmsi. And it's not the actual name. But it kindof is.... and helps others keep further away, rather than come close.

I would either disregard or at least pre-judge someone showing mmsi number (twice) on AIS.

 

[Kemp]

Compared to what Google, Government, mobile networks, Facebook, Tesco etc already know about you, I think having your boat name/whereabouts in the public domain is the least of your worries. Excuse the pun but that ship has sailed. If it bothers you, just get a bigger radar reflector.

Do they publish this information publicly online? Can you track someones historic movements by cars, trains, buses? What is why there is General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and many other laws.

 

[t21]

Just to be clear, AIS etc is indeed "hardcore". In any collison - you look bad cos didn't broadcast boat name. Few will try calling a boat by its MMSI and wouldn't be expected to do so. And ... showing only mmsi indicates possible MOB thing. So it sounds like for (false) privacy reasons and (real) safety reasons, you'd be better off without installing AIS if you don;'t plan to put boat name on there.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Thanks for the ITU link. I wonder how come cars are not tracked this way, so your wife can track you. Tracking should be voluntary and with consent for a public display (including historic). I do not see any problem if someone wants to show his intestines to the world.

It is voluntary, you volunteered to transmit your details by AIS.

 

[Boathook]

Do they publish this publicly online? Historic data of crashes and movement? No doubt Google, Apple do this, but is it legal? Phone network providers are regulated by law how they collect and process private data, how long they can legal keep it, etc. And you have a legally binding contract with them. Maybe you have one with e.g. MarineTraffic? I don't.

Marine traffic and other similar sites only re-broadcast publicly available data. Something that any ais receiver can pick up along with some satellites and put this data on to the Internet.

 

[laika]

I do not see any reduction of AIS safety if boat's name is replaced with ON or MMSI

Maybe you know your boat's mmsi by heart and would recognise it if being called by voice. I used to know mine but have realised I've now forgotten it although I'm unlikely to forget my boat's name or callsign. Not recognising when someone calls you is a safety issue. But maybe you know your mmsi by heart. Do your crew in case you're incapacitated/asleep/in the head when someone calls you? If not: safety issue. If you're reported overdue does everyone who might report you so know your MMSI? Well in fairness it's part of the info I give to my designated shore-based contact but will the fact that you don't have the boat name in your AIS be appropriately communicated to the search and rescue teams?

As discussed, you don't gain much privacy unless you go to silent mode: MMSI identifies you more than a boat name which is shared with many others. I'd consider any perceived privacy gains are rather outweighed by negatives of complicating a safety process, but hey, YMMV.

 

[KevinV]

I sort of understand the privacy concern, if you were famous it would be a right pain if the paparazzi only had to spend two minutes on Google to know where you are.

Could you get the best of both worlds by mangling the name slightly, so a human would read it correctly, but a search in Marine traffic wouldn't find it?

I'm thinking something like D@vid - any human seeing it knows what it says, but searching "David" wouldn't bring it up. Not foolproof, but it would help, while maintaining the safety aspects of being easily called on vhf. Not sure what special characters are allowed in AIS, but a space in the right place would be enough (ie D vid)

 

[[70521]]

I was called up at about 0630 one foggy morning by boat name while crossing the Firth of Forth this summer. Would I kindly not get too close to the big survey ship off my starboard bow. I wonder how he knew my boats name, because I was transmitting on AIS.

A massive container ship, One Manhattan (MMSI 431260000) sneaked up behind me in a narrow channel crossing the Thames Estuary, how did I know who it was and that she had done a 2° course change 2 nm behind me, because she was transmitting AIS.

The big boys are required to transmit. If you are concerned then go into stealth mode, a bit like the Border Force Cutter that steamed past me at dawn in the English Channel in August.

As many above have said if you are unhappy then go stealth or don't fit it. It is great when somebody you have not seen for 30 years telephones you and says I see you are in Scarborough do you fancy a few pints.

 

[Keith-i]

I sometimes struggle to understand this privacy desire. Why have we all become so worried and blinkered about people knowing our name and whereabouts? I think your best solution would be to change your own name to dissociate yourself from your assets. Maybe take your lead from the artist formerly known as Prince.

 

[[70521]]

And of course there is always Flight Radar, almost every aircraft on the planet is shown on the Internet. Other flight tracking websites are available.

Live Flight Tracker - Real-Time Flight Tracker Map | Flightradar24

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

I sometimes struggle to understand this privacy desire. Why have we all become so worried and blinkered about people knowing our name and whereabouts? I think your best solution would be to change your own name to dissociate yourself from your assets. Maybe take your lead from the artist formerly known as Prince.

His problem was that his record company or somesuch, owned his name, he wanted to use it but couldn't.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Given the existence and unavoidability of the MARS ITU database, this is a complete non-issue. Your MMSI or call-sign will give your entry in that database, and you have to provide identifying data for your vessel when obtaining your ship station license. So, anyone who knows your MMSI can easily find your vessel's name.

Given that normal VHF practice uses the ship's name as the call identifier, broadcasting the ship name has obvious benefits in some situations. Until this year I only had an AIS receiver, so didn't broadcast my MMSI or ship name. It took me a minute or two to realize that there was unlikely to be more than one "Yacht heading south to the north of Amethyst platform"; if they'd called "Yacht Capricious", I could have responded quicker. Didn't matter in that case - it was nonurgent, but I can imagine a situation where the minute it took for the penny to drop might matter. Now I have a transponder, I'd expect to be called in the usual manner as "Yacht Capricious"

Your ship's name is public information; the MARS ITU database will be squeaky clean in that regard, so it is foolish to regard it as somehow private.

 

[Sta]

It seems like if many who don't understand that people don't want that their boats get tracked misunderstand the point of Kemp's first post. Yes, the mobile phone record everything we do, but you can't google my name and find where I am right now or where I have been.
I thought about if I should buy AIS transponder or just reciever. That anyone can see my position is too much invasion of my private life, I decided to buy a reciever. If only people within VHF range would see me I would be interested in an transponder. I had not bought equipment to a car or bike that show for everybody where I am.

 

[Seven Spades]

Thanks for the ITU link. I wonder how come cars are not tracked this way, so your wife can track you. Tracking should be voluntary and with consent for a public display (including historic). I do not see any problem if someone wants to show his intestines to the world.

Every new car can now be tracked. It is a requirement that all new cars have a mobile built in for emergency calling. even if there is no sim in the unit it’s internal numbers are connecting to networks and you car can be tracked.

Many cars now have the equivalent of a black box recording your driving speed etc. Then they are going to introduce a new box for pay as you drive. They have no choice, it is either tolls or a black box, no government can afford to forego 30bn in tax. So soon there will be at least 4 ways to track you and your car. The Australian police have just used this technology to great effect to rescue a little girl.

 

[Sta]

So soon there will be at least 4 ways to track you and your car.

Where do I find an app so I can track your car? Or said in another way where do my ex, curious people in general, my wife's voilent ex or those people my wife witnessed against and just got out of prison find an app where they can track our car?
I have no problems that the police can find out where my boat is if I need to be rescued or if I am suspected for a crime. I have no problems that that boats nearby have the information. It's all the others I don't want to have that information.

 

[Black Sheep]

For what it's worth, I agree with the OP.

There is a world of difference between the fact that Google HQ might know where I am (from phone), and my exact current position being made available to everyone with an internet connection and a nosey mentality.

When I'm single handing my boat, then the boat's position is my position. It is identifiable personal information. I thought we had privacy laws against unauthorised disclosure and publication?

Yes, I can turn off transmit. But that (especially for a single hander) reduces my personal safety. This trade-off between safety and privacy isn't a trade-off that I want to have to make.

I'm not sure that the OP's proposed solution quite works. It helps a bit by putting up a barrier - the nosey person has to search me in the ITU database - but doesn't deter the determined.

But I don't know what the alternative is, apart from a legally-enforceable opt-out option from Vesselfinder type services.

 

[[70521]]

It seems like if many who don't understand that people don't want that their boats get tracked misunderstand the point of Kemp's first post. Yes, the mobile phone record everything we do, but you can't google my name and find where I am right now or where I have been.
I thought about if I should buy AIS transponder or just reciever. That anyone can see my position is too much invasion of my private life, I decided to buy a reciever. If only people within VHF range would see me I would be interested in an transponder. I had not bought equipment to a car or bike that show for everybody where I am.

Kemp's post was very clear. In the world of the radio transmission you have no control over what the receiver does with the data sent. You can mitigate that via encryption, but clearly as Bletchley Park demonstrate during WWII transmissions can be intercepted and be coded.

If Kemp and others, the question has come up in the past, have an issue then they need to take some decisions about what they wish to broadcast.

Are Kemp and others concerned about their radar signatures, VHF transmissions or NCI recording the name, date and time of his passing their look out post? All are in the public domain.

It would be interesting to hear from Kemp and others why they are so concerned about anybody knowing where he was. AIS is an incredibly useful tool for letting others know where you are, if s/he has a problem with that don't switch the thing on. Seeing where friends are on some voyages is often a delight. A friend was on passage from Cuba to the UK in March 2020 and seeing a 15 min track about 150 nm off Brittany was fantastic, clearly an atmospheric fluke, but I was able to report to a bunch of pals the boat would be home very soon.

Personally, if on a dark and stormy night I need to hit that wee red button on the VHF I want the CG to have all the information I can give them and if that is a record of the boats passages for the last 12 months and it helps them brilliant. Pyrotechnics will also be used when I see passing vessels.

You may have heard that the UK Intelligence Services have signed a deal with Amazon or Google to store data in their clouds. I wonder what the OP thinks about that?

 

[Sta]

Are Kemp and others concerned about their radar signatures, VHF transmissions or NCI recording the name, date and time of his passing their look out post? All are in the public domain.

This was new for me. Where do I find every time I have passed a radarstation, sent a VHF message or passed a lookout posts? I don't find it when I google my boat, but Fleetmon is the first hit when I google a friends boat with AIS transponder. I would really like to know what others can find when they google my boat.

It would be interesting to hear from Kemp and others why they are so concerned about anybody knowing where he was. AIS is an incredibly useful tool for letting others know where you are, if s/he has a problem with that don't switch the thing on. Seeing where friends are on some voyages is often a delight. A friend was on passage from Cuba to the UK in March 2020 and seeing a 15 min track about 150 nm off Brittany was fantastic, clearly an atmospheric fluke, but I was able to report to a bunch of pals the boat would be home very soon.

That is nice sometimes. I use the same function on WhatsApp when I bike to my brother so he knows when I will arrive, but then I can choose that it will only be for a short time and only he can see it. I had not installed WhatsApp if anyone could see my position if I had that app on the phone, just like I don't buy an transponder.

Personally, if on a dark and stormy night I need to hit that wee red button on the VHF I want the CG to have all the information I can give them and if that is a record of the boats passages for the last 12 months and it helps them brilliant. Pyrotechnics will also be used when I see passing vessels.

If you think they will analyze that information and use it when they rescue you, then that is good for you that this can be done, I have no problems that you want that. I wish it was an option to use transponder, but not make the information available for everybody.
I think it's strange that it is legal to give everybody this information. I don't think I'm allowed to put a camera in a public place and use facerecognition to find who pass the camera and then publish this on internet. And I don't think phone companies are allowed to publish where their customers are, even if that would help people when they are in danger or visit a friend.

 

[Jamie Dundee]

I find it a bit odd that people with (rightly or wrongly) grave personal privacy concerns post these concerns on social media ?

 

[Bobc]

Do they publish this information publicly online? Can you track someones historic movements by cars, trains, buses? What is why there is General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and many other laws.

Why don't you just put your MMSI number in there, and then at lest you can feel smug in the fact that you've outsmarted the authorities and kept your whereabouts hidden from prying eyes (which you haven't anyway, but let's not dwell on it).