AIS Personal Locator Beacon

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ColinR

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www.victoriashadow.co.uk
I have an Fastfind GPS PLB that I wear on my life jacket (406 mhz). I'm looking at getting a second one and I see there is also an AIS DSC one that alerts stations within 5nm via AIS and also sends a distress signal via the vessels DSC vhf. That sounds like a good option for coastal sailing. Any views on this type? Thanks, Colin
 
I'd like to see a combined PLB/AIS unit and have asked Ocean Signal Ltd. I want to wake up everybody on watch AND get the CG rolling. If I go for a swim then I fully expect to be carted off to hospital for obs, secondary drowning does not look fun.
 
ColinR said:
I have an Fastfind GPS PLB that I wear on my life jacket (406 mhz). I'm looking at getting a second one and I see there is also an AIS DSC one that alerts stations within 5nm via AIS and also sends a distress signal via the vessels DSC vhf. That sounds like a good option for coastal sailing. Any views on this type? Thanks, Colin
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Easy to fit to a LJ and automatic unlike the PLB. I have both, plus a knife, buried in the folds of my lifejacket.
 
Sandy said:
I'd like to see a combined PLB/AIS unit and have asked Ocean Signal Ltd. I want to wake up everybody on watch AND get the CG rolling. If I go for a swim then I fully expect to be carted off to hospital for obs, secondary drowning does not look fun.
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Does the combined PLB ( message to the coat guard via satelite Link and global rescue network) and AIS ( VHF distress message with location for AIS equiped local Vessels) exist yet in one device?
My understanding is currently you have to carry 2 devices, A PLB or EPIRB and a sperate AIS find me unit despite it being obvious that putting them together would be a great idea. Suspect technical Bureacracy and tecnical transmission capacity are the reasons why it has not yet happend in one device.
 
seumask said:
Does the combined PLB ( message to the coat guard via satelite Link and global rescue network) and AIS ( VHF distress message with location for AIS equiped local Vessels) exist yet in one device?
My understanding is currently you have to carry 2 devices, A PLB or EPIRB and a sperate AIS find me unit despite it being obvious that putting them together would be a great idea. Suspect technical Bureacracy and tecnical transmission capacity are the reasons why it has not yet happend in one device.
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Unless you are sailing single handed, he/she left on board can issue a distress call. Rescue from the parent vessel has to be the optimum as, unless close inshore, time in the water will finish you off before rescue.
 
Graham_Wright said:
Unless you are sailing single handed, he/she left on board can issue a distress call. Rescue from the parent vessel has to be the optimum as, unless close inshore, time in the water will finish you off before rescue.
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b
So AIS PLB would facilitate rescue by parent vessel whereas GPS AIS goes straight to satellite and is of no immediate help to the parent vessel in locating the MOB
 
ColinR said:
b
So AIS PLB would facilitate rescue by parent vessel whereas GPS AIS goes straight to satellite and is of no immediate help to the parent vessel in locating the MOB
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Basically if you're sailing with crew the AIS type are probably best, especially ones that also send out a DSC alert. But if you're single-handed, the PLB type probably has a better chance of being useful; your (now unmanned) vessel can't respond!
 
AIS I understand is a VHF radio frequency system and is primairly for ship to ship identification and collision avoidance. That said you can get the AIS find me beacons that the OP was referring to which if activated can be found by vessesl in the region that have the approriate AIS reciving system on that might include the origional vessel from which the MOB came from.
In short in bad vis and with few hands on board it can be very hard to find a MOB by eye sight hence the idea behind these beacons. They can allow the use of the onboard AIS that many boats have to locate a MOB if activated.
GPS AIS is not a thing as far as I'm aware. The use of GPS by the AIS locator beaon is only to understand its location in the beacon and broadcast the AIS message on VHF locating the casulty.
Now at the end of any technical know how so bowing out gracefully.
 
seumask said:
Does the combined PLB ( message to the coat guard via satelite Link and global rescue network) and AIS ( VHF distress message with location for AIS equiped local Vessels) exist yet in one device?
My understanding is currently you have to carry 2 devices, A PLB or EPIRB and a sperate AIS find me unit despite it being obvious that putting them together would be a great idea. Suspect technical Bureacracy and tecnical transmission capacity are the reasons why it has not yet happend in one device.
Click to expand...
As far as I am aware the combined PLB/AIS device does not exist, but in my opinion it should. I frequently single hand and want all the vessels in the locality made aware that I had gone for an 'unexpected swim', and the boat was speeding off over the horizon at 5 knots, and the Coast Guard alerted that somebody was in the water and that the lifeboat needed to be called.

Last summer a small fishing cuddy capsized between Arbroath and Stonehaven as I was on passage to Stonehaven. The first anybody heard was then a RIB discovered the hull with a chap sat on it. He had been there two hours and two others were reported as in the water. Once the Mayday went out Aberdeen CG, the RNLI and various other vessels raced to the scene. Seeing a Shannon class LB pass you at 30 knots is impressive! As I was doing 5 knots getting to the casualty 10 nm away would have taken some time.

Had there been an AIS distress signal and PLB signal at the same time I am convinced that vessels would start making their way and advising the CG that they had received a distress signal. I understand that a EPRB/PLB signal can take upto two hours to hit Falmouth CG.

All three were picked up by the rescue services, but I learnt that one of them did not survive the night at Aberdeen Royal Infirmary. RIP

As both PLB and AIS will have regulatory approval I can't see much reason for OFCOM in the UK not to give approval, but don't know the way that OFCOM gives approval and my days of doing such work is long behind me.
 
I agree. I have a GPS PLB for my own use as I do quite a bit of single handed sailing. I was looking at the AIS version for inexperienced crew in coastal waters when I would hope to be able to respond quickest.

Sandy said:
As far as I am aware the combined PLB/AIS device does not exist, but in my opinion it should. I frequently single hand and want all the vessels in the locality made aware that I had gone for an 'unexpected swim', and the boat was speeding off over the horizon at 5 knots, and the Coast Guard alerted that somebody was in the water and that the lifeboat needed to be called.

Last summer a small fishing cuddy capsized between Arbroath and Stonehaven as I was on passage to Stonehaven. The first anybody heard was then a RIB discovered the hull with a chap sat on it. He had been there two hours and two others were reported as in the water. Once the Mayday went out Aberdeen CG, the RNLI and various other vessels raced to the scene. Seeing a Shannon class LB pass you at 30 knots is impressive! As I was doing 5 knots getting to the casualty 10 nm away would have taken some time.

Had there been an AIS distress signal and PLB signal at the same time I am convinced that vessels would start making their way and advising the CG that they had received a distress signal. I understand that a EPRB/PLB signal can take upto two hours to hit Falmouth CG.

All three were picked up by the rescue services, but I learnt that one of them did not survive the night at Aberdeen Royal Infirmary. RIP

As both PLB and AIS will have regulatory approval I can't see much reason for OFCOM in the UK not to give approval, but don't know the way that OFCOM gives approval and my days of doing such work is long behind me.
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V1701 said:
Really, well if that's the case there isn't much point wearing a PLB (which I do usually)...:oops:
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I understand that's out-of-date. It USED to be the case that a position from a non-GPS equipped EPIRB could take up to 2 hours before an accurate position was obtained and forwarded to Falmouth. But a GPS-equipped EPIRB or PLB reaches them much faster; in a matter of minutes, I understand. But whatever, you're going to be in the water for quite a while if depending on intervention from another vessel or the lifeboats.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
I understand that's out-of-date. It USED to be the case that a position from a non-GPS equipped EPIRB could take up to 2 hours before an accurate position was obtained and forwarded to Falmouth. But a GPS-equipped EPIRB or PLB reaches them much faster; in a matter of minutes, I understand. But whatever, you're going to be in the water for quite a while if depending on intervention from another vessel or the lifeboats.
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@AntarcticPilot if you have a source for that I'd be very interested.
 
seumask said:
Does the combined PLB ( message to the coat guard via satelite Link and global rescue network) and AIS ( VHF distress message with location for AIS equiped local Vessels) exist yet in one device?
Click to expand...

A combined Epirb/AIS exists, recently introduced by McMurdo (+ another brand, not sure if actually sold); hopefully a PLB will follow suit, they have less regulatory restrictions than PLBs so it *should* be easier.
"McMurdo Smartfind G8 AIS" is the model name.
 
Sandy said:
@AntarcticPilot if you have a source for that I'd be very interested.
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I was going on things I've read here, but the RYA has a page that is helpful: EPIRB and PLB | safety | RYA
If I've got it right, a satellite will pick up the transmission within 15 minutes. If there's a GPS fix and it agrees with the position given by the satellite pass, it will be sent directly to the CG, who will then get the registered details for the device. This will give them details of the type of device and a shore contact. They will attempt to contact the shore contact given in the registration but will alert local resources to be at readiness. It isn't clear what happens if the shore contact is unobtainable or doesn't have any information to pass on.

If there is no GPS, then it might require 3 or 4 satellite passes before an adequate position is determined; i.e. an hour or more delay, plus whatever time it takes to check that it isn't a false alarm.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
I was going on things I've read here, but the RYA has a page that is helpful: EPIRB and PLB | safety | RYA
If I've got it right, a satellite will pick up the transmission within 15 minutes. If there's a GPS fix and it agrees with the position given by the satellite pass, it will be sent directly to the CG, who will then get the registered details for the device. This will give them details of the type of device and a shore contact. They will attempt to contact the shore contact given in the registration but will alert local resources to be at readiness. It isn't clear what happens if the shore contact is unobtainable or doesn't have any information to pass on.

If there is no GPS, then it might require 3 or 4 satellite passes before an adequate position is determined; i.e. an hour or more delay, plus whatever time it takes to check that it isn't a false alarm.
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Thanks @AntarcticPilot, as ever not a definitive answer from the RYA or CG.
 
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