Airborne dinghy

[longjohnsadler]

I can reliably report that an Avon dinghy becomes airborne when towed behind a yacht at windspeeds over 35 knots.
What sort of an ass, I can hear you say, tows etc etc.
Well, one that leaves port in 16 knots of wind and believes the shipping forecast and the coastguard updates, and with no liferaft on a short coastal passage feels happier with the dinghy out back.
On sunday, leaving Killybegs in Donegal Bay, bound for Portnoo 30 miles or so further west then northeast, the forecast was southerly 4, veering west 5 to 7 later - by which time we should be in Portnoo.i.e. wind helping all the way.
The wind steadily increased to 20, 25, then 30 knots plus, by which time we'd reefed the main, furled the jib, then dropped the main and motored, with the wind on the stbd quarter.No sweat, but with just two of us on board and things happening quickly, the dinghy was still there.
At 35 knots plus, the dinghy became airborne, bouncing and laterally looping the loop. Whilst I finally managed to sort the dinghy/zeppelin, Donegal Bay Coastguard Radio were issuing their weather update, ' winds will reach force 6 or maybe 7 later.There is no gale warning at the present time.' The wind speed was gusting to 43 and 44 knots.
Anyway, my question is this:
Whilst trying to sort the dinghy, it was almost impossible to turn the boat into wind even under full engine. We had a biggish jib on (bad call), which although furling will not stay reefed in any strong wind (tried everything). So if the engine had failed and we were on a lee shore (we weren't), what would the options be?
Condescending, abusive or flippant replies are invited, though helpful ones will be given priority.

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[tony_brighton]

Interested to know why you tow the dinghy on longish trips rather than putting it on the fordeck?

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[oldharry]

First of all, weather forecasts give the wind speed as the sustained average figure - not the 'strongest gust' figure. Indeed where violent gusts are anticipated in an otherwise moderate wind regime - such as in thundery weather - many forecasters will give a strong gusts warning. This means that the forecast you had was accurate, but in an unstable wind regime - which can be caused by local topograhical effects - gusts well in excess of those forecast may and should be anticipated. I have seen the anni-anni-wotsit meter gusting F8 or 9 when the forecasters speed is 4 - 6

I would be quite worried about setting to sea with a 'furling jib that will not stay furled' in a strong wind, and suggest you look into this smartish and get it put right particularly if you are sailing short handed. Next time, as you rightly point out, you may be on a lee shore and not have time to deal with it before the situation becomes life threatening.

As to flying dinghies - this is a well known feature of inflatables, to which as far as I am aware, no one has found an answer. Small rigid dinghies - particularly the lightweight Poyetheylene variety will behave much the same when the wind gets strong enough.

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[vyv_cox]

Several comments.
Firstly, the thought that an Avon dinghy might offer liferaft substitute service in winds of F 6, 7, or 8 on the open sea is at best optimistic. I give it very little hope of being any use, other than floating, in these circumstances.
Second, as someone else says, your furling gear needs urgent attention.
Third, during a rescue several years ago I got into the situation of towing an inverted dinghy when single handed. In trying to recover and right it I broke a rib against the pushpit, leading to a loss of sailing time for several weeks.

If you must tow a dinghy in adverse conditions it is better to use two painters on the D-rings at the forward quarters rather than the single one at the bow. Shortening these will pull the dinghy either up the transom or very close to it, where it is unlikely to capsize.

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[longjohnsadler]

Yes, I am certainly owning up to making mistakes.
The wind for a prolonged period was in the mid 30s, gusting to over 40, but in any case the forecast should only be taken as a guide. Prediction of wind speed everywhere round the coast is not going to be 100% accurate, and I'm not complaining.
The jib will stay completely furled, but not reefed in a strong wind. There was a thread on this a few months ago.
It just struck me that in different circumstances, and with a failed engine, it would have been impossible to raise the main, and my jib system would have been at best a problem. Lesson learnt. Given that situation though, I wondered what then might be done.

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[longjohnsadler]

Perhaps sloppy I know, but I wasn't expecting winds of force 6-8, as the forecast suggest F4, and I expected to reach my destination before winds increased 'later'.
Things developed rather sooner and quicker which meant that sorting the dinghy wasn't a priority.
I certainly wouldnt expect the dinghy to double as a liferaft. For longer passages I hire a liferaft, but not so far for 30 mile trips round the coast. I'm not sure how many do. The dinghy is more reassurance that if there is an explosion or fire, there is some sort of quick escape route.

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[claymore]

If you had searoom perhaps running dead downwind with the mainsheet tight in the middle might have helped you get some main up? If you'd got into chucks hole and were close to a lee shore I suppose anchoring might have been an option - that might have held you head to wind long enough to get some main up - it might even have bought you enough time to get the dinghy aboard?
The jib furling thing is a pain - I suppose if you wanted some jib out you could always tie a knot in the furling line so that it wouldn't run out too far?
You do see loads of boats towing dinghies and I've always presumed its because they are only doing shortish hops and they can't be faffed to get the dinghy deflated and lifted aboard.
I wouldn't do it as the exhaust spits out and I wouldn't want the dinghy plastering in recycled engine cooling water - I also have davits so no need.

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Claymore
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[Rob_Webb]

When I was in Auckland earlier in the year I was struck by just how many people towed their dinghy behind them - it seemed that for everyone on the Hauraki Gulf it was the local habit. Maybe it's something to do with relaxed Kiwi attitude and simply 'not being bothered' about bringing it aboard, but people certainly didn't waste much valuable sailing time wrestling with inflatables!

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[Birdseye]

i feel a Meldrew coming on!

dont agree about the forecast - with the multi millions spent on the met office and the powerful computers they have, its not unreasonable to expect more detailed and accurate forecasts than we get. the difference between F4 and 40 knots could easily be survival - almost any boat / dinghy will handle F4 but a lot wont cope very well with 40kn. mine wont motor into 40kn, yours sounds as if it wont either, so what could we do if it were an onshore wind?

why is it that the met office perform so poorly? in a 4 week trip along the s coast a couple of years ago, i found it more reliable to assume todays weather would be the same as yesterday than to use the days forecast. from personal experience, meteo france are much more reliable

and why do the uk coastguard continue to repeat a 5am forecast which has clearly been proved wrong by events until the 5pm one comes along? ask them about it and you get the classic jobsworth reply!

ps my old zodiac took off in the wind in ilfracombe harbour once. funny thing was, when we ventured out (young, macho and stupid) the wind was a good 10 knots less and no problems

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[MainlySteam]

They're a sloppy bunch up there - I trust you will sort them out when you get here Rob, they need it! What I can't work out is how they stop them filling up from the rain and sinking as they tow them along.

Very rare sight down here (rain and towing dinghies).

John

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[Jacket]

Well, if you can come up with a more reliable method of forecasting the weather, patent it quick- you'll be a millionaire in days. Thousands of people across the world are spending billions trying to predict the weather accurately. Unfortunatly, some things are impossible, and really accurate forcasting is likely to be one of them. There are just too many variables, with no way of measuring them all, let alone calulating their significance and the way they interact with each other.

But i do agree with you that its pathetic that the weather forecast is only updated every 12 hours - it should be modified much more regularly as they see how the weather patterns are developing.

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[jimi]

Jib

My first suggestion would be to try to get a bit of main up, drop the genoa completely and put the storm jib up.

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[GeorgeP]

Accuracy of forecasts

This is a real bone of contention with me too. Assuming the weather today will be the same as yesterday and using the French forecasts both seem more accurate from my experience than using our Met Office, as mentioned earlier.

Perhaps we could shut down the Bracknell office and outsource this to the French? The bonus is it may be significantly cheaper too!

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[Aja]

Re: Accuracy of forecasts

Probably work fine on the south coast of england - maybe not so accurate in Donegal?

Donald

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[vyv_cox]

Re: Accuracy of forecasts

Better off in Donegal. Irish forecasts are frequent, regular and accurate. And free.

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[Sybarite]

A few years ago I was moored inside Port Tudy harbour on the Ile de Groix. It was in November and there was a gale. The dinghy was moored alongside the boat. In the morning it was in the cockpit.

Running back to Lorient ( the only time I have ever used the storm jib and a 3rd reef in the mainsail) we had a 60knt squall which broached the boat and broke two of the shackles on the storm jib.

John

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[Jules]

Sounds like a nice trip. Are you going to Church bay in Portnoo?
Last year we spent a good week based in Fanny's hole (seriously) at the entrance to Mulroy Bay on one of the boatyards moorings, but didn't go further down the lough due to fear of fish farms. Tory island now has a new harbour.
As a challenge try to tie up at Ramelton pier in L Swilly. We did!
I'm off to stay in a caravan at Portnoo on Monday. I'll look out for the boat with the unfurled jib.
Good luck
Julian
Good luck

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[longjohnsadler]

Left the boat there on monday, on the visitors moorings in Church Pool.Lovely spot. The wind was still up on monday and we surfed onto the beach in the aforementioned, slightly maligned dinghy humming the theme tune to Hawaii-5-0.
Carried the gear into the caravan park and picked it up from there.
Next weekend we're back to base in Lough Swilly (Fahan), weather permitting, so will probably be gone. Although Ramelton's just over the other side of the Lough, never been there by boat, but have watched others tying up - looks tricky especially at springs.
Of course if we're still in Church Pool, we'll be the ones with the dinghy behind...

Weather sounds good for early next week.
Regards

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[BlackSheep]

Dear Mr Meldrew.....
The Coastguard repeats the 5am forecast until the 5pm one comes along because that's the way the met office issues them and we have a contractual obligation to do so!! ..... And now for the local inshore forecast, Oh I'm sorry it's not very nice today so we'll make up some better weather for you!!!!! Ok, so occassionally winds exceed those forecast or weather arrives early, but the majority of the time, the inshore forecasts give a good indication of what can be expected. Yes It's easy to give the met office a slagging, but I would suggest a visit to the forecasting centre in Bracknell might open a narrow mind!
Sorry rant over - jobsworth back on watch!!
On original subject - don't like dinghy dragging but when I do, tend to put a mooring warp through the D rings & tie off both ends to the aft cleats. seems to do the trick.

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[jimi]

It just struck me that in different circumstances, and with a failed engine, it would have been impossible to raise the main, and my jib system would have been at best a problem. Lesson learnt. Given that situation though, I wondered what then might be done.

Ooops did'nt read that properly!! My thoughts would be that you've got to get head to wind in some sort of way. I wondered about trying to stream a make do sea anchor from the bow e.g bucket, sailbag etc at the end of a long warp ? Then once head to wind drop the genoa and get a bit of main up?

Other option I wondered about was trying to drop the genoa, I know that in that sort of wind its going to be awkward but if you got up a bit of speed, turned up into wind and got a fully reefed main up. Next get the genoa down! If you get some more speed up, turn up into wind again,let the sheets fly, drop the halyard you'd probably be able to lose enough of it to enable you drop the rest of the genoa. then get the storm jib up. However if you carry a trysail, you could have shoved that up instead of the main

What do you think

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