Aesthetic vs. cost saving: where to draw the line?

[MapisM]

Ok folks, I understand I'm going to ask you how long a piece of string is, sort of.
But I'm considering some alternatives, and thought to check the view of the old salts and armchair naval architects around here...

Now, my timber boat was originally built with the gunwales glossy varnished. I mean, like in the pic below, but with also the white panels varnished.
Years ago, I decided to try painting in white the panels, to reduce the varnishing burden, which requires a refresh every other year, if not yearly.
And I must say that I was very pleased with the result, because she looks even nicer than the original, all varnished finishing.
Trouble is, there's still a lot of varnished wood to take care of, and I could think of some better uses for the money I'm asked by my yard to keep it shiny.
And no, before someone suggest, I don't fancy doing it myself. Call me lazy git if you wish, but I just think that life's too short.

Bottom line, I'm now considering all the possible alternatives.
White paint also on the short frames which enclose the panels (sorry, 'dunno the proper EN terminology), leaving the rest as bare wood? Or oiled? Or varnished in matt instead of gloss?
Btw I'm mentioning the latter because I'm told matt varnish lasts much longer, but is that true?
Or paint the whole thing in white and be done with it? That's clearly the option requiring the lower maintenance, but would that be fugly, or at least acceptable?
Strictly from an aesthetic viewpoint, I'm willing to compromise, but as the title says, not sure about where the "acceptable" limit is...
Opinions welcome, thanks in advance!

 

[SailorBill]

From the pic and your description I don't think it would be the prettiest solution but I don't think it would be fugly either. As you say, life's too short so paint it white and spend the money you save each year on new toys.

 

[Seastoke]

Go down the boozer ask who is good painter for cash and save ,ask for a demo first

 

[sarabande]

if you paint all the bulwarks white, she will end up looking like a fishing boat !

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_HwH1nDwCoAM/ShyFIDwaCBI/AAAAAAAAAHs/8BL-MFh9ol4/s320/bulwarks.JPG.jpeg

You could get away with a very dark matte grey on the uprights of the frames to pick up/ echo the metalwork, and a shiny black on the footrail - 3 colours (well, non-colours, to be accurate).

 

[dunmor]

looks nice like it is:encouragement:

 

[rbcoomer]

looks nice like it is:encouragement:

+1 Paint it yourself you lazy git...!

Sorry, couldn't resist! I actually think the current white highlights the woodwork and have seen similar styled boats that seem to work well, but also think more white would loose the effect. (Or as Sarabande puts it, would it look like a fishing boat?)

 

[vas]

looks nice like it is:encouragement:

+1

leave it as is MM!
I generally dislike varnished timber, but the "framed" effect of the white painted panels is looking v.good. Will be spoilt (imho) if you do any more in white!

cheers

V.

 

[Bertramdriver]

Nothing to stop you painting the uprights with brown two pack polyurethane. Same effect but 50% less effort. I see the whole varnish thing to be the manifestation of too much money chasing too bigger ego.

 

[MapisM]

if you paint all the bulwarks white, she will end up looking like a fishing boat !

Yeah, I'm aware of that risk.
...though she actually has a fishing boat heritage, that's what the yard which built her made for decades, before moving to pleasure boats.
So, at least in this respect, it would be kinda consistent!

Thanks for all the inputs so far.
indeed I agree that the current combination is as nice as it gets.
But when compared to the need of refreshing gloss varnish yearly, the white paint every 8 to 10 years is an attractive proposition.
In just a few years, that means a saving of some grands, which is also attractive....

Interestingly, neither the barewood (possibly oiled) nor the matt varnish seem to have any supporters so far!?

 

[MapisM]

Nothing to stop you painting the uprights with brown two pack polyurethane. Same effect but 50% less effort. I see the whole varnish thing to be the manifestation of too much money chasing too bigger ego.

Interesting view, I never thought of a boat like mine as something good for bigger ego chasing...
Care to tell me more about the 2 pack thing?
I always thought that also the existing varnish is 2 pack, but still it's always visibly "tired" at the end of each season of Med sun......

 

[lambohill]

The difficulty with varnished wood is that it does not work in any situation long term, either on land or water, and particularly not in the sun.
On buildings we generally avoid it, and a 'low solids content' stain is used, such as in timber windows etc where varnish fails very quickly.
I do like your framed effect, and I think it looks nice, however it must be very difficult to keep right and presumably halfway through season is nowhere near its best.
I do not think the 'low solids content' approach used by sikkens on buildings will work due to the marine environs, but I do think the framed look, carried out in satin finish paint suitable for the varnish substrate will work longer term, and look good. Sarabande's suggestion of a grey, say a ral 7012 or slightly darker in semi matt / satin, will look designed and be lower maintenance, and reversible should anyone wish in the future.It would also look good with the panel in a pale grey say ral9002 against the darker ral7012 so as not to create too much paint contrast, in lieu of the traditional varnish v white look.
Best of luck!

 

[jfm]

MapisM, I was looking for matt varnish for my outside tables on Math recently, but ALL the technical advice from the major manufactures (International, Epifanes, etc) said you need gloss for UV resistance. No manufacturer, as far as I could tell, offers a matt and claims UV resistance.

If you painted the frames white but kept the rest gloss varnished, the annual work would be almost the same. I mean if the yard varnishes the capping rail and the rim of the teak deck, they might as well varnish the frames too. But I think you know that, and are proposing (as one option of many...) having the capping rails and deck rim left bare, just oiled, not varnished. OK, but in that case why not apply the same treatment to the frames? Then you would keep the nice aesthetic where the white panels are framed by brown wood. The whole forum likes that look!

I like oiled teak and find it easy to maintain. I have it on all my tables plus my capping rails on both Matchhs, as you know. So that would be my suggestion IF all the wood we are talking about were teak: remove all the varnish and oil tall the wood, so preserving the aesthetics. BUT the frames are not teak while the capping rails and deck rim are teak, right? In that case, I agree your suggestion: paint the frames white, and oil the rest. Sure there is some compromise on aesthetics but imho it's not a bad compromise and as you say life is short. Plus the aesthetics as seen by those outside the boat are not affected

 

[MapisM]

No manufacturer, as far as I could tell, offers a matt and claims UV resistance.

Interesting. I only asked my yard, and they told me that they had good results with some matt varnish which can withstand 2 to 3 seasons, with no refresh in between.
But I didn't ask any further detail, 'cause I don't mind onboard works on mechanic, hydraulic or electric stuff, but I just hate anything involving brushes and carpentry.... Ahem, yep, not a good thing for a wooden boat owner - Vas, forgive me... . Anyway, I'll ask them what they would use for matt finishing.

BUT the frames are not teak while the capping rails and deck rim are teak, right?

Nope, I'm afraid the capping rails and deck rim are iroko.
The main hull frames are oak, and I suppose also the smaller ones above deck, but I'm not sure.
How they would look like, and whether durability could be affected, if left neither varnished nor painted, that's anybody's guess...

 

[MapisM]

I do like your framed effect, and I think it looks nice, however it must be very difficult to keep right and presumably halfway through season is nowhere near its best.

Spot on.

I do think the framed look, carried out in satin finish paint suitable for the varnish substrate will work longer term, and look good.

That's consistent with what my yard told me, but seems in contrast with jfm findings on paint manufacturers recommendation...
Or is there some critical difference between "satin" and "matt" that I'm missing?

 

[jfm]

Spot on.


That's consistent with what my yard told me, but seems in contrast with jfm findings on paint manufacturers recommendation...
Or is there some critical difference between "satin" and "matt" that I'm missing?

See for example the 4th-from-last last answer on this Epifanes page - Epifanes being perhaps the Rolls Royce of varnishes http://www.epifanes.com/qanda.htm

But I also saw the same advice on other big mnufacturers' websites

 

[scubaman]

IMHO the white frames wouldn't be a compromise too far at all. White would look nice and clean and also visually increase the feeling of space on deck?

Not wooden on this one but you get the feeling.

 

[Whopper]

Just throwing a suggestion out there. What about trying the oiled teak look and also using an alternative uv protectant..

http://303products.com/index.php/pr...t-protecting-teak-wood-in-marine-environments

 

[Bertramdriver]

Normal two pack varnish is the equivalent of putting your wood under a clear plastic sheet. In the med environment the UV and wind bourne abrasives like salt and coral will break down the surface of the varnish very quickly and it will start to flake and peel. The wood underneath is protected but the surface under the varnish will start to " crumble" along its grain and lose its bond strength, thus speeding up the flaking process. The use of a high solids paint provides more protection for the wood substrate by providing greater UV protection. The effect of using a two pack paint is to give the paint surface greater "toughness" and ability to survive abrasion. Thus the underlying wood retains its integrity and the bond with the paint is maintained. I prefer polyeurathane to epoxy but I do like epoxy as a primer.
So the only varnish you will find on my boat is below decks. As for my teak deck rails I'm still experimenting but nothing lasts more than a season.

 

[Spi D]

Jotun claim special properties in their Benar series

Have no personal experience with this one but am genuinely impressed with other Jotun products (like +17 year longevity on white window frames on house)

 

[LittleShip]

No opinion on looks but, if you decide to paint leave the varnish on and just paint over it. That way if your disappointed with it you can easily get back to clean wood with no paint in the grain.

Tom.