Aegean Fence

Turkey capitalises on the misfortune of the Syrian refugees and it uses this as a weapon against the EU and Greece. Turkey has also invaded Syria!!. And furthermore Turkey has sent army in Libya!!; Let's hope that tourists boycott Turkey this summer and don't go there for sailing.
The best way for Greece and the EU to stop Turkey capitalising on the misfortune of the refugees would be to take them away from Turkey and then it wouldn't have that stick to wave.
As regards invading other countries isn't that what all the strong western democracies do especially the leading members of NATO?
 
The best way for Greece and the EU to stop Turkey capitalising on the misfortune of the refugees would be to take them away from Turkey and then it wouldn't have that stick to wave.
As regards invading other countries isn't that what all the strong western democracies do especially the leading members of NATO?

You make very good points. The chances of the EU politicians/bureaucrats coming to sufficient agreement to achieve the removal of refugees from Turkey seems somewhat dim and doing so would in all likelihood just result in a greater inflow into Turkey.

There is more than a whiff of hypocrisy about western political and media commentary on Russia's actions in Syria (and indeed Ukraine and elsewhere) however it was ever thus. For example compare and contrast Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 and Iran Air Flight 655.
 
I wonder whether the refugees are genuinely in fear for their lives, or if instead they've been overcome with mass hysteria. I can't believe it's in the interests of any invading power to provoke the evacuation of the entire populace (who know how to run the local oil industry, and exploit other national resources), and capture a huge area of unoccupied territory.
 
I wonder whether the refugees are genuinely in fear for their lives, or if instead they've been overcome with mass hysteria. I can't believe it's in the interests of any invading power to provoke the evacuation of the entire populace (who know how to run the local oil industry, and exploit other national resources), and capture a huge area of unoccupied territory.
From what I have read the recent conflicts in the Middle East - Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan etc - haven't really been played in the spirit of the Queensberry Rules.

(Not that I have ever seen these in print, doubtless a forum pedant will be along in a moment to explain how wrong I am :unsure: ).
 
From what I have read the recent conflicts in the Middle East - Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan etc - haven't really been played in the spirit of the Queensberry Rules.

(Not that I have ever seen these in print, doubtless a forum pedant will be along in a moment to explain how wrong I am :unsure: ).

I've never though Boxing terribly civilised, but we did put an appreciable effort into bringing on Cricket in AFG (not sure that counts as ME though).
 
I wonder whether the refugees are genuinely in fear for their lives, or if instead they've been overcome with mass hysteria. I can't believe it's in the interests of any invading power to provoke the evacuation of the entire populace (who know how to run the local oil industry, and exploit other national resources), and capture a huge area of unoccupied territory.
?
 
They should go back where they came from and sort out the mess they left behind as they as part of the problem. No much sailing this summer in that area!!!!
Assuming you're talking about the migrants, that is one of the least thought through comments I've read on the subject. The reason they want to leave Syria, Libya, etc is because the people in charge of the problems have Kalashnikovs and they don't. What they want is what we have, the right - and the possibility to live their lives and bring up their children in peace. Sure, there are economic migrants mixed in, and I'd agree that they should be sent home whenever possible. No one with any knowledge of it ever said it was an easy situation with a simple solution.

The easy solution was available years ago - for the West not to meddle in regime change, but we can't go back and close that little Pandora's box, so IMO, we have a moral duty to do what we can. I've no idea what, but I could be convinced to look the other way if teams went to the source countries and encouraged the people traffickers to take up an alternative occupation. Like pushing up daisies.
 
In the absence of common European strategy, European leadership and the will to blend them into our culture; No migrants should be allowed inside Euro borders. If inside Europe then we have full responsibility for their welfare and safety which none in Europe is willing to fully commit. They are part of the problem and should become part of the solution. Also, any adult who takes small children into the inflatable boats putting them at risk and indeed more children have died at sea as result of irresponsible actions of their parents, should be taken to court/prison; using children as a cover is criminal. The generosity of the locals has run out and have nothing else to provide; they have very little themselves anyway. And now because of these issues, will have even less for themselves as tourists will have no appetite to go sailing in areas such as Lesvos, Chios, and other islands.
 
but I could be convinced to look the other way if teams went to the source countries and encouraged the people traffickers to take up an alternative occupation. Like pushing up daisies.

Problem with that, if you are of a paranoid frame of mind is that some western NGOs and criminal traffickers look to be at the very least in a bootlegger and baptist sort of arrangement.
 
Things will get worse, especially when Turkey encourages the refugees to cross and as always causing unnecessary trouble in the area. Lack of freedom of the press to report factual information in Turkey has not helped, the propaganda is so obvious. I feel sorry for the locals. Looks like the Ionian will be much busier than the Aegean this summer with yachting.
You're right about one thing - Turkey will definitely encourage the refugees to cross the borders. Turkey has been warning for a long time that the international community need to step up to the plate and play their part but Europe's NIMBY approach and their failure to live up to their agreed commitments to Turkey has brought about the current situation.
 
You're right about one thing - Turkey will definitely encourage the refugees to cross the borders. Turkey has been warning for a long time that the international community need to step up to the plate and play their part but Europe's NIMBY approach and their failure to live up to their agreed commitments to Turkey has brought about the current situation.
Like IR, I have a boat in Turkey and have greatly enjoyed for some years the hospitality of the Turks and the boating. I also feel desperately sorry for their problem with the enormous numbers of Syrian refugees who have sought safety inside Turkey. What may have started as a temporary safe haven until the fighting in Syria was concluded now looks like a permanent shift. No going back While Assad is in control. So what should the Western powers do, if anything? To re-settle 3 million Syrians (and who knows how many Pakistanis, Afghans and others) into Western Europe would be a strain on the West and probably not very enjoyable for most Syrians. The change in lifestyle and culture would be massive. But for a minority it could work and they could live fruitful lives in their new countries. So to my mind, the big question is how do we voluntarily take enough of the right type of these refugees to the UK, France, Germany, Netherlands etc so that Turkey can resolve the remainder of the refugees locally? Or should we just nuke Assad and let this lot of refugees go back to rebuild their own country?

Personally, I shall go back to sailing in Turkey / Aegean again in a few months and keep fingers crossed that our governments can come up with a humane solutio.
 
Like IR, I have a boat in Turkey and have greatly enjoyed for some years the hospitality of the Turks and the boating. I also feel desperately sorry for their problem with the enormous numbers of Syrian refugees who have sought safety inside Turkey. What may have started as a temporary safe haven until the fighting in Syria was concluded now looks like a permanent shift. No going back While Assad is in control. So what should the Western powers do, if anything? To re-settle 3 million Syrians (and who knows how many Pakistanis, Afghans and others) into Western Europe would be a strain on the West and probably not very enjoyable for most Syrians. The change in lifestyle and culture would be massive. But for a minority it could work and they could live fruitful lives in their new countries. So to my mind, the big question is how do we voluntarily take enough of the right type of these refugees to the UK, France, Germany, Netherlands etc so that Turkey can resolve the remainder of the refugees locally? Or should we just nuke Assad and let this lot of refugees go back to rebuild their own country?

Personally, I shall go back to sailing in Turkey / Aegean again in a few months and keep fingers crossed that our governments can come up with a humane solutio.
There are no winners in this situation only big losers. The Turkish government has been under increasing pressure at home because of the strain the almost 4 million Syrian refugees has put on social services and the numbers of Turks who are unemployed while hundreds of thousands of Syrians are working for low pay. It has impacted on the Presidents popularity and it was inevitable there would be a reaction. I feel extremely sorry for Greece as well especially the population of the Aegean Islands. Greece should not have to bear this burden virtually alone and the rest of the EU countries should do their bit. Having said that there's no excuse for what we saw on our TV's last night with Greek coast guard ramming and firing guns at flimsy boats with small children on board or reports of live fire at refugees on the land border. This problem is not going to go away.
 
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