Advise for would be movers from Motor to Sail?

[Stemar]

I've zero knowledge of boats in that category - my boats have at least one zero less on the price tag, but I can help with chain noise, as I've spend many nights at anchor.

After Jonathan's descriptions of effective snubbers, I wouldn't call it that, but I used a length of elastic rope - I used laid nylon - with an eye splice at one end to go over a cleat or Samson post, a rubber mooring snubber, and a chain hook at the other, long enough to go a metre or so over the bow roller so the chain is slack. It doesn't need to be strong enough to hold in a howling gale, just the conditions you're likely to anchor in; too strong and it won't have the elasticity you want. You do, of course, have the chain made off properly on board as backup.

Better would be a proper snubber to Jonathan's specification, but my little line will stop the graunching.

 

[westernman]

When we purchased our Island Packet SP Cruiser it was in Gloucester Docks. A fair trip to Gosport down the Bristol Channel, around Lands End and East along the Channel. A fellow club member, regular crew for several commercial delivery outfits, agreed to assist with the trip.

He was scathing about our choice. He called it a fat tub with a small rig.

At 2.30 AM rounding Lands End in the pissing rain wearing tee shirt and shorts he decided he quite liked it........................

in the same style, maybe a Nordhavn 56 motor sailer.

 

[dunedin]

I too have been looking for a heavyish, slowish yacht that is nice to live and work on (for periods), while compact enough for two to sail but still able to carry some gear.

Here is my runway favourite after a relatively modest amount of research -- to the point of toying with an order
I have a sneaky feeling it will fulfill all of your needs as there are lots of options (inc "push button" if you want it), and while not fast per se, these boats do sail very nicely indeed.
Just possibly best of both worlds?
55CS | Contest Yachts

There's also a new 50 without the stern garage coming out which would also be worth a look.
50CS | Contest Yachts

Just my tuppence

Very nice - but needs a bit more than your “tuppence”.! And in saily boat terms, Contest 55 does not class as “slowish”.

To assist the OP, as ever the key information missing is BUDGET! If considering spend measured in EUR Millions then lots of choices - including Discovery / Southerly, Oyster etc. For mere mortals with lesser budgets, the choices may be somewhat different.

 

[rotrax]

Yes, a good deal of dilettante theorising going on here.

I think most of us could put up with the aft, open cockpit boats mentioned, without undue distress. ?

.

Of course we can. Most of us do, or did.

Interesting the choice of words you used :- "Most of us could put up with"

We did exactly that, put up with it.

Now we dont have to.

Just like mororcycling, Sailing is to be enjoyed, not endured.

IMHO, of course.

 

[dom]

Very nice - but needs a bit more than your “tuppence”.! And in saily boat terms, Contest 55 does not class as “slowish”.

To assist the OP, as ever the key information missing is BUDGET! If considering spend measured in EUR Millions then lots of choices - including Discovery / Southerly, Oyster etc. For mere mortals with lesser budgets, the choices may be somewhat different.

More than tuppence for sure, but not outrageously priced for what is a decent sized, clean and beautifully put together boat. It's light and airy inside, with space to configure a small home office if required. It's also setup for a couple to sail, so all in I'd say worth considering.

When I went for a test sail the boat pretty much lives up to its polars, which while by no means slow and better than a similar Hallberg Rassy is still firmly in cruisy territory. Nicely powered up from about 12kts TWS.

 

[Laminar Flow]

More than tuppence for sure, but not outrageously priced for what is a decent sized, clean and beautifully put together boat. It's light and airy inside, with space to configure a small home office if required. It's also setup for a couple to sail, so all in I'd say worth considering.

When I went for a test sail the boat pretty much lives up to its polars, which while by no means slow and better than a similar Hallberg Rassy is still firmly in cruisy territory. Nicely powered up from about 12kts TWS.


View attachment 123326

Firstly, I would treat any numbers, and especially those derived from variables, such as displacement and correspondingly, SA/D, L/D ratios and polars, and when published in promotional material, with the greatest grain of salt.
Displacement figures are rarely defined, i.e. empty ship (and even then how empty?), half load?, or full load (defined?). Mostly such numbers are aspirational and sometimes they are down right lies, such as when they were based on a prototype without any fitting out. It is quite common for a boat to be at least 33% heavier than quoted.

But, back to the vessel described. The 50 footer is quoted as having a displacement of around 21.5t, that gives her a D/L ratio of 172 which is borderline light/moderate, but hardly in any danger of planing. Her SA/D ratio calculates as 18.2 (main & genny), which, while decent, is not excessive. Based on her given displacement, if at all true, the numbers in the polar reflect what in relative speed terms should be achievable by any regular displacement craft, including the relative speed of 1.5 shown in the polar as a broad reach in 20kts, likely with a code zero.

When I had a lage boat, I never eally thought of her as compact, certainly not in a marina and when I was paying the harbour dues. What I love about this forum most is the abounding sense of reality.

Contest has an excellent reputation for quality, but not even their products are suspended from the laws of physics, the helm will be wet in the rain or spray and drafty on windy days... I can only but imagine all that bikini clad flesh draped across the fore deck and trying to sun itself in the "champagne" weather of an Irish/Scottish summer.

 

[ashtead]

If looking the initial consideration is price but given you are used to a shallow draft maybe a lifting keel southerly 42 or larger by Discovery might be just the thing . As said above many jeanneau deck saloons about and quite roomy . Yacht of choice if looking for a palatial stern cabin might be a smaller Jongert of course along with the somewhat more quirky Amal’s. A hard top or at least a hard screen is useful . Another mobo type choice might be a larger Fisher if not put of by age but advantage of indoor steering etc and massive diesel or an older Moody eclipse43 .

 

[Greenheart]

Contest has an excellent reputation for quality, but not even their products are suspended from the laws of physics; the helm will be wet in the rain or spray and drafty on windy days... I can only but imagine all that bikini clad flesh draped across the fore deck and trying to sun itself in the "champagne" weather of an Irish/Scottish summer.

I reckon you're right. Beautiful boat, superb reputation...but her level of weather protection looks strangely familiar.

I don't remember ever seeing yacht advertisement photographs featuring typical UK weather. It doesn't matter because nobody actually shells out £500 or £500,000 having been hoodwinked into climatic delusions by marketing men...

...we buy boats with sails because it's nice getting 'free' miles out of natural forces, and we accept having to pull ropes, get wet at times and make more decisions than a motorboat skipper must; in fact we like the requirement to think and to some extent, work.

But I get cold easily, and so may the O.P., or possibly his other half. If he's serious about a sailing boat, his options may be few.
.

 

[Tranona]

Dan

You (and several others) should re-read the OPs very detailed requirements and how he intends to use the boat, then you might all realise how inappropriate your suggestions (and theirs) are. For example nowhere does he say he wants an inside steering position - in fact specifically states what he wants in the cockpit, including a walk aboard transom and davits. You might also note that he specifically says that he only intends sailing in good weather and easy handling plus good accommodation are priorities.

As ever most suggestions are based on what the suggester has, would like to have or just suits their own preferences.

Of course without an indicative budget it is difficult to get down to specific models, but not difficult to contribute ideas. For example the Moody DS, Jeanneau DS and IP and several of the bigger Beneteaus are all aimed at attracting motor boat owners to sailing by providing living accommodation closer to what is possible in a hull shape like a Broom.

Hopefully Oceanfroggies will come back with some observations, and maybe a budget range.

 

[Greenheart]

...he specifically says that he only intends sailing in good weather...

Thanks Mr. T, I needed a laugh.

As you say, it would be good to hear back from Oceanfroggie, whatever his thoughts and response may be.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Dan

You (and several others) should re-read the OPs very detailed requirements and how he intends to use the boat, then you might all realise how inappropriate your suggestions (and theirs) are. For example nowhere does he say he wants an inside steering position - in fact specifically states what he wants in the cockpit, including a walk aboard transom and davits. You might also note that he specifically says that he only intends sailing in good weather and easy handling plus good accommodation are priorities.

As ever most suggestions are based on what the suggester has, would like to have or just suits their own preferences.

Of course without an indicative budget it is difficult to get down to specific models, but not difficult to contribute ideas. For example the Moody DS, Jeanneau DS and IP and several of the bigger Beneteaus are all aimed at attracting motor boat owners to sailing by providing living accommodation closer to what is possible in a hull shape like a Broom.

Hopefully Oceanfroggies will come back with some observations, and maybe a budget range.

Let's do a quick recap then:

- Based in Ireland, not interested in Med: i.e. Northern climate with more robust weather.
- No interest in long distance cruising or racing: i.e. speed and ocean-going seaworthiness is not a priority.
- Coastal cruising: shallow draft seems like a serious benefit, particularly as a boat gets bigger.
- Dodger + bimini + roll-down sides: starting to sound a bit like covered steering to me and given the intended area of operation it kinda makes sense.
- Decksalon for more convivial above ground living.
- Features and a level of comfort with technology commonly found on motor boats.
- Easily handled rig.

All the rest, davits, push button operation included, is perfectly interchangeable.

Stab me, but if that doesn't start to sound like the spec sheet for a motorsailer, I don't know what does?

 

[penfold]

Only going to sail in good weather but based in Ireland; does not compute. This AWB will never leave the dock!

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Let's do a quick recap then:

- Based in Ireland, not interested in Med: i.e. Northern climate with more robust weather.
- No interest in long distance cruising or racing: i.e. speed and ocean-going seaworthiness is not a priority.
- Coastal cruising: shallow draft seems like a serious benefit, particularly as a boat gets bigger.
- Dodger + bimini + roll-down sides: starting to sound a bit like covered steering to me and given the intended area of operation it kinda makes sense.
- Decksalon for more convivial above ground living.
- Features and a level of comfort with technology commonly found on motor boats.
- Easily handled rig.

All the rest, davits, push button operation included, is perfectly interchangeable.

Stab me, but if that doesn't start to sound like the spec sheet for a motorsailer, I don't know what does?

Sounds like a catamaran to me. Added similarity to a mobo is twin engines.

 

[ashtead]

Being elderly and used to large walk round berths in a Broom I thought that the quality of the stern master cabin might be the primary consideration here as I’m sure he doesn’t want to be shuffling down a berth he wants a good walk around berth in a vessel he can handle etc.

 

[Tranona]

Let's do a quick recap then:

- Based in Ireland, not interested in Med: i.e. Northern climate with more robust weather.
- No interest in long distance cruising or racing: i.e. speed and ocean-going seaworthiness is not a priority.
- Coastal cruising: shallow draft seems like a serious benefit, particularly as a boat gets bigger.
- Dodger + bimini + roll-down sides: starting to sound a bit like covered steering to me and given the intended area of operation it kinda makes sense.
- Decksalon for more convivial above ground living.
- Features and a level of comfort with technology commonly found on motor boats.
- Easily handled rig.

All the rest, davits, push button operation included, is perfectly interchangeable.

Stab me, but if that doesn't start to sound like the spec sheet for a motorsailer, I don't know what does?

It is if that is what you like and you can twist and modify what the OP asked for to fit.

Go back and actually read post#1. nowhere does he ask for shallow draft, nor "convivial living above ground". He does ask for a cockpit with sprayhood, bimini and roll down sides and boarding from the stern and an island bed in the aft cabin. Does not sound like a wheelhouse motor sailor to me. Sounds just like a 40-50' AWB (day sails marina to marina?) of which there are dozens on the market, but the aft cabin requirements with stern boarding does limit choice.

Of course the OP may well revisit his requirements when he sees the alternatives suggested, but there are a number of boats that do get close.

 

[Greenheart]

Only going to sail in good weather but based in Ireland; does not compute...will never leave the dock!

I thought Tranona was joking. I only realised he's serious, this morning.

The O.P. said he'd plan to drive for two to three hours each time, in order to spend periods of up to several weeks on board. Perhaps he only wants to occupy the island bed and deck saloon, but he already has a fine boat to do that in.

Assuming he actually wants to sail, the climate ought to be a significant factor in his choice, even if it hasn't occurred to him. I recall a Colvic owner saying how much the weather had improved since he'd bought a boat with a wheelhouse.

If Oceanfroggie has read this far, he'll hopefully have gathered all that, and I'm as sick of stating it as everyone is of reading it, whether or not it has permeated (it won't have, I know. ?).

Froggie certainly is taciturn. I sometimes wonder if members of the mobo contingent grin mischievously and whisper "whose turn is it to ask the raggies what sailboat I should buy?" ?

 

[dom]

Assuming he actually wants to sail, the climate ought to be a significant factor in his choice, even if it hasn't occurred to him. I recall a Colvic owner saying how much the weather had improved since he'd bought a boat with a wheelhouse.

Froggie certainly is taciturn. I sometimes wonder if members of the mobo contingent grin mischievously and whisper "whose turn is it to ask the raggies what sailboat I should buy?" ?

But he specifically said he wants to swap to sail

And he didn't ask what boat he should buy !!

He asked which boats might fit some specific criteria without setting a price range

 

[NormanS]

Some years ago now, we came back to sail after a long spell of motor cruising in a 60ft converted MFV. We chose a Deck Saloon ketch, and it has ticked all the boxes for us. We almost always sail from outside, but the ability to be able to be underway motoring , using the inside steering position, makes a huge difference to our enjoyment. Each to their own, but I can't imagine why the OP wants to have boarding from the stern as a priority. I class that along with teak decks, as features to be avoided.

 

[oceanfroggie]

It's interesting - and rather unusual - that despite your Broom being a biggish motor-boat, it doesn't have an indoor helm.

Last month LongJohnSilver (trawler yacht owner) asked the same question, tentatively looking at sailing boats. I think once he realised he'd have to spend all watches outdoors in order to steer a sailing yacht, he decided he's better off now, with a wheelhouse.

Are you aware that the sprayhood on most sailing yachts, protects the hatchway, not the person steering, as your own does?

There are excellent exceptions like Rotrax's and Laminar's motor-sailers, but few here will admit that they're the answer. ?

My advice would be to steer your Broom through a few good heavy rainstorms, without your sprayhood up, before considering any open-cockpit sailing yacht. The reality of summer sailing in our latitudes may be less appealing than you're keen to believe.

Thank you for your insight and suggestions. Our previous boat was a flybridge and I helmed outside on top in all weathers, hated driving from below so I just suited up in wet weather gear and helmed even in hail. But I get your point. A spray hood and a bimini should keep the sun off me. On the Broom I tend to have the forward section of the canopy off underway, but the real shelter comes from the windscreen. I could not ever cope with med temperatures, prefer the temperate climate around these islands and the bit of rain to temps regularly >30ºC. Helming Brownie from flybridge during an F8 under an active CB told me if my wet gear was good enough. The rain under sail in open cockpit seems a little more vertical than horizontal. Plan to sail only in fair weather, so once in port a bimini perhaps will fold down sides should offer shelter for cockpit area.

 

[oceanfroggie]

"Champagne sailing" That sounds like a wonderful euphemism for weather like tonight in the Solent.

I think it's great that you sail all year round - you can only be doing it because you like it. I've spent very limited time on yachts over 42ft, but all my time on pure sailing yachts has taught me I don't want one - and that I don't envy their owners anymore.

I have the dinghy, and I get all the weather I want, in that. When I get another cabin boat, it'll have the option to steer from indoors.

The motor-boater who isn't sure, must beware...or at least, be aware, it is unlikely to be what he's used to.

The pleasing counterpoint is the motor-sailer, which retains its appeal for pure weatherproof versatility.

Thanks prefer to be outdoors to feel the boat and what the wind is doing, and we are only likely to undertake long passages legs on pleasant days, otherwise shelter in safe harbour swinging on the hook.