Advice on selling my MOBO in the Solent

Ah Paul, If you're still using your boat to save on living expenses then it's not really really up for sale, just testing the water. Nothing wrong with that though. I'm not getting out by any means but I could not get on with my next boat until the last was sold and having it sitting there doing nothing was EXPENSIVE! and a drain on capital.
 
PCUK said:
Ah Paul, If you're still using your boat to save on living expenses then it's not really really up for sale, just testing the water.
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Not sure how you come to that conclusion!
Just because the boat is being used doesn't mean it's not "really" for sale. If the seller, in this case VP, says its for sale, surely it for sale?
Using your analysis would rule out most boats as being "really" for sale.
 
They don't know it yet but I'm going to write an article for one of the boating magazines on the whole used boat scene. It's been a real eye opener. Half a million pound boats that covered me in green slime when I went to open flybridge hatches, piss covered woodwork in the heads, weed a foot long growing from the hull.

Boats that have been on the market for a year and who's owners turn you down when you offer, what I believe, is market cash value.

Clean the boat to within an inch of its life. That includes the hull. Take off every personal item including that hand knitted bedspread that makes the cabin look like an Egyptian brothel. I think you should include lots of photos in your presentation. Spend £20-30 on a bespoke little website for it which you can refer people to in the adverts. Waiting until people email before sending them the photos may mean potential buyers miss out. Not everyone wants to contact you until they are pretty sure the boat is a definite goer for them. They want to peruse at their own speed, in their own time and without being bothered.

Leave it in the water (subject to size and age) so that people can, if necessary go out for a quick sea trial. It weeds out people for whom the boat isn't right and lets a genuine buyer satisfy themselves that the boat is fundamentally sound before going to the expense of a full survey.

Price, ahh yes the ugly little matter of money. This is the hardest and at the same time single most important part. Now some boats are easier to value than others because they sell in relatively large numbers. Other boats are a nightmare because one hasn't sold for a year or more. People use other boats as a yardstick on which to judge theirs and that can sometimes be dangerous. They look for identical boats, then say "but they were way over price", so I've pitched a bit below that. The problem is the other boats were, by the person's own admission, over priced so your lower price might not necessarily be right still. Also don't just look at identical boats to yours also look at other boats which will be in scope to a would be buyer.

Finally brokers. If your boat is fairly new then speak to the main dealers. In my case they were a quarter of the price of many third party brokers. I kid you not. Never have I seen such a den of thieves which needs to be negotiated. At the lower end of the scale there are people who will list your boat on all the major listings sites for under £300 and let you do the rest. It depends how much hand holding you want. Are you happy to show the boat yourself? Can you sort out all the paperwork? Are you and the buyer happy not using a third party to handle the money.

In my case I did most of the work myself including showing the boat but felt that using Princess as a broker gave my buyer a sense of security. They know the boat, know the paperwork is all in order and can also hold my hand in terms of paperwork, deposits, surveys and so on.

It would help to know what the boat is. Make up an advert, post it up on here and let everyone give their constructive comments. The specifics of your questions will depend on the boat.

Hope that helps.

Henry :)
 
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Spot on Henry.

But there is one issue you missed that some owners face, VolvoPaul is a case in hand I think.

Lots of folks that want a motorboat might have £100k to spend, but the running cost is big money, chum of mine is selling a Sunseeker, asking £120k, its about ten or so years old, I forget the model, but its the best part of 50 foot, so it must be what? £10k for a nice marina mooring? I know it takes 1500 litres to fill it up, you are staring down the barrel of £15k running cost a year.

I could raise the cahs to buy a £100k boat, but £15k a year would put me off.
 
There's a couple of possible answers to your point. Either the people who can afford to run their boats want new-ish boats or the people don't mind spending the 15-20k a year on a 50 footer but don't want to spend half a million plus on the boat.

I'm in the first camp and I think a lot of others are similar. My Princess 42 is quite an easy boat to sell in that size-wise its affordable, boats don't come a whole lot cheaper. Age-wise its new enough that the person who can afford to go boating will be satisfied with the condition. You don't have to keep making excuses or hiding behind the boat's age.

I think the trick is finding out where age allows depreciation to be minimised but the boat is still new enough that you don't spend your life running round replacing stuff and having to rebuild the thing.

I haven't seen Paul's boat but given what he does for a living there is half a chance the next owner stands to get a well maintained craft. Were I in Paul's shoes I would even consider offering the boat with some sort of warranty or maintenance schedule in order to set it apart from other craft and maximise return.

Henry :)
 
Trust me the boat is for sale at what I would call it's true value for it's condition and value for what you are buying, I've nearly been there twice now for one buyer to have a sea trial come back, discuss me literally taking me to the bank, off load my gear, negotiate mooring etc, in turn I offer on other boat I'd got lined up for him never to be seen or heard of again. Second buyer arranged survey and sea trial, pay his deposit to say wife's I'll, broker still has I'm led to believe a small deposit sat in his account from December 5th last year, how long can it go on like this, so many time wasters , do they just pick on me? I do wonder.

Before we know it the season will be upon us so ive drawn up a list this weekend of goodies I wanted on the next boat, so I'm going shopping soon, new canopy, electric quiet flush toilets, plotter and radar and a few other bits, plus the usual engine and genny service, I'm also thinking of moving south side of the bridge so I'm not locked in by the bridge.
 
I agree with your point about Brokers Henry. I wouldn't tar them all with the same brush but what they tend to want to charge just doesn't stack up for me. We have sold all three of our boats privately. All have been with Boats and Outboards supplemented with a really good set of details and photographs and the boat kept immaculate for viewings. Last one had to accept an offer but that's the market - could have held out but would probably still have the boat.
 
volvopaul said:
Trust me the boat is for sale at what I would call it's true value for it's condition and value for what you are buying, I've nearly been there twice now for one buyer to have a sea trial come back, discuss me literally taking me to the bank, off load my gear, negotiate mooring etc, in turn I offer on other boat I'd got lined up for him never to be seen or heard of again. Second buyer arranged survey and sea trial, pay his deposit to say wife's I'll, broker still has I'm led to believe a small deposit sat in his account from December 5th last year, how long can it go on like this, so many time wasters , do they just pick on me? I do wonder.

Before we know it the season will be upon us so ive drawn up a list this weekend of goodies I wanted on the next boat, so I'm going shopping soon, new canopy, electric quiet flush toilets, plotter and radar and a few other bits, plus the usual engine and genny service, I'm also thinking of moving south side of the bridge so I'm not locked in by the bridge.
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If a deposit has been taken then there should have been a time limit set to arrange any trials and complete the purchase. As I understand it you could sue for the balance so merely retaining a 10% deposit is relatively pain free in the general scheme of things.

I think you need to be having a little chat with your broker. This exactly the sort of situation that they are there for. If they haven't acted in accordance with normal practice then there might be a little wriggling. Obviously if you agreed to a reduced deposit or alternative terms then it's a different story.

Either way it might be worth asking one of our resident experts (read JFM ;) ), they (he'll) be able to set you straight.

H. :)
 
Greg2 said:
I agree with your point about Brokers Henry. I wouldn't tar them all with the same brush but what they tend to want to charge just doesn't stack up for me. We have sold all three of our boats privately. All have been with Boats and Outboards supplemented with a really good set of details and photographs and the boat kept immaculate for viewings. Last one had to accept an offer but that's the market - could have held out but would probably still have the boat.
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I don't think taking an offer is necessarily a problem providing you're happy with the figure finally achieved. Sometimes you market at a price which allows for a part exchange for instance. I think that's especially the case with my next boat. A half million pound 50 odd foot buyer normally has something to get out of first. I'd stick mine up for sale assuming I was going to have to massage someone's ego on their 42 footer ;).


On the other hand if someone walked up the pontoon swinging a big bag of cash you could imagine the price might reflect my ability to rush out and invest my new found wealth.

Henry :)
 
henryf said:
Are you and the buyer happy not using a third party to handle the money.

In my case I did most of the work myself including showing the boat but felt that using Princess as a broker gave my buyer a sense of security. They know the boat, know the paperwork is all in order and can also hold my hand in terms of paperwork, deposits, surveys and so on.
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I think your comments are spot on - I've only sold 2 boats in my time, so would not claim to be an expert. However just a suggestion re handling money. Last boat sold (50k+) myself and the buyer used our solicitors to handle the money. Low cost, in theory very secure and complies with money laundering regs.

Rob
 
Funnily enough the physical handling of funds isn't so much of a problem given we move money around on a daily basis. It was more making sure the right bits of paper went to the right places. It also assures the buyer that Vat has been paid. In my case Princess were the original seller to me when new.

Having just read through the papers sent over today on our boat it seems that in the event of your buyer pulling out Paul the depo is split between you and the broker once you have deducted any legitimate costs incurred so it looks like you might owed a few quid ?

Henry :)
 
volvopaul said:
In my case your statement does not exist, im not selling to get out of boating im actually moving up with another 60k plus to spend on top of what I get for my boat, so im not wasting a penny on moorings or running costs at present of in the future, I use my boat in the week to stay on, the moorings are cheaper than a hotel here in Swanwick so it stacks up for me very well.
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I wouldn't want to offend with unsolicited "feedback", but if it were me, I would have another go with some of those photos :)

E.g. Remove the cushions. Open the curtains and ditch the night photos. Remove the animal, duvet, bits from the forward berth. Remove those bits from the stand near the Tv. Close the cupboard door revealing the stuff. Remove all those things from the bathroom. And from the beds in the second cabin. Nobody wants to see stuff! As close to a new boat brochure is where to aim for, and new boats don't have radiators on the berths...
 
FlowerPower said:
I wouldn't want to offend with unsolicited "feedback", but if it were me, I would have another go with some of those photos :)

E.g. Remove the cushions. Open the curtains and ditch the night photos. Remove the animal, duvet, bits from the forward berth. Remove those bits from the stand near the Tv. Close the cupboard door revealing the stuff. Remove all those things from the bathroom. And from the beds in the second cabin. Nobody wants to see stuff! As close to a new boat brochure is where to aim for, and new boats don't have radiators on the berths...
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Hmmm interesting feedback , your actually the first to comment and spend time looking up my boat thanks dave.

What I will say and it's a back to brokers and somewhat backing up many of henrys comments on how to sell a Porsche sorry boats, I was not present at any time when both brokerage companies came to take details and photos of the boat, so I just went with the flow on how to present the boat for sale.
I think the reason the curtains were closed is down to the sunlight through the windows marring a good shot.

As I said in a previous post I'm just about at the end of the line now re selling, a short list has been made, a booking for a lift out etc, I'm going to enjoy her now for another season and watch what happens in our uncertain financial climate.
 
FlowerPower said:
That sounds like a plan.
There's no point letting a good boat go for a song if you don't have to!
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That's right she is a great boat, we just wanted to go more modern , particulary the flybridge layout and steps, that's about it really I dont want to go any faster for sure, but when your boats really personal to you it's hard to let it go for peanuts, also the gap from sale proceeds to new boat (phantom 43) was just getting larger, so it's pointless living a dream when the chain is static.
 
I presume yours is the 410 with the brown spotty curtains?

Right then, found it on the Yacht market site, its not on Apollo duck which I find reasonably easy to navigate. It isn't perfect but the photos a quite big as opposed the the Yacht Market site.

It was listed by a Solent company. Oh dear. Not sure what they do for a living but it couldnt be boat sales. I wasn't feeling the love. The only way I could search was on a price high to low basis. Couldn't see anywhere to enter key words. When I did find your boat I thought I'd see if there were any decent pictures. When I clicked on your boat the site told me to feck off. I was performing a 403 forbidden activity!!!

So I did.

From the little photos on YMarket it looks nice and tidy inside, no pictures of the engines, the curtains are quite striking and feature in every shot as do the extension leads in the front cabin, (40 seconds?), clutter in the second cabin (40 seconds?).

But my main complaint would be I couldn't see and nice big pictures, anything which told me it was owned and maintained by a marine engineer, etc etc. It looks a really good boat knowing you was I do and reading between the lines.

Why oh why can't brokers invest the £1,000 (or less) necessary to take good shots of their client's boats? Boats are all the same so it's formulaic to get good results. Once you've got it right on the first boat all the others fall into place. In this day and age we do all the hard work for them by browsing the Internet at all hours so that once we rock up for a viewing we're all moist and ready to be sold to. But it does rely on having the right material to study with your spare hand whilst browsing ;)

Henry :)
 
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henryf said:
I presume yours is the 410 with the brown spotty curtains?

Right then, found it on the Yacht market site, its not on Apollo duck which I find reasonably easy to navigate. It isn't perfect but the photos a quite big as opposed the the Yacht Market site.

It was listed by a Solent company. Oh dear. Not sure what they do for a living but it couldnt be boat sales. I wasn't feeling the love. The only way I could search was on a price high to low basis. Couldn't see anywhere to enter key words. When I did find your boat I thought I'd see if there were any decent pictures. When I clicked on your boat the site told me to feck off. I was performing a 403 forbidden activity!!!

So I did.

From the little photos on YMarket it looks nice and tidy inside, no pictures of the engines, the curtains are quite striking and feature in every shot as do the extension leads in the front cabin, (40 seconds?), clutter in the second cabin (40 seconds?).

But my main complaint would be I couldn't see and nice big pictures, anything which told me it was owned and maintained by a marine engineer, etc etc. It looks a really good boat knowing you was I do and reading between the lines.

Why oh why can't brokers invest the £1,000 (or less) necessary to take good shots of their client's boats? Boats are all the same so it's formulaic to get good results. Once you've got it right on the first boat all the others fall into place. In this day and age we do all the hard work for them by browsing the Internet at all hours so that once we rock up for a viewing we're all moist and ready to be sold to. But it does rely on having the right material to study with your spare hand whilst browsing ;)

Henry :)
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Henry, the said broker seems to have Internet issues, only last week I was with another boat owner which I was trying to talk a part ex deal with, I tried to bring up the boats details to be faced with all the obstacles in my way to view the pics, if you want and have the time there are better pics on www.jaykaymarine.co.uk where you don't have to give them you inside leg measurement and Swiss bank account details to look at the pics.
Anyway after a long chat with the wife tonight she is to be withdrawn from sale, we are going to concentrate on using her with a few little updates to make her feel a bit more loved.
Cheers for your input everyone.
 
That's better. I can see the photos :)

You're taking it off the market so my comments are probably more general to people reading, but if you do decide to re-list.....

I'm going to shoot from the hip, please don't be offended. I have a lot of time for you, you did a lovely job on my engines / genny and I would have no hesitation in recommending you but see this in servicing terms. We took the floor of my saloon right off so you could check the level of the supercharger oil on the stbd engine which was spot on and crystal clear. But someone couldn't be bothered to take the flybridge covers off to take pictures of the flybridge! How low effort is that? A buyer is expected to travel several hours to see a boat but someone couldn't be bothered to take the covers off for the photos. Wow! By all means show a picture of the covers to show how nice they are but then stash them away and start clicking.

Once again there is a load of stuff in many of the photos. Bottles, toiletries general living gear. It makes you think either the boat doesn't have any storage or it isn't really for sale. The person is using it and has just listed it to see what happens. If I pulled the trigger it would take a month to get all the gear off (obviously I'm exaggerating but it's what people think). Have loads of personal bits on there also makes it hard for a buyer to image its theirs when looking around. All the items keep popping the mental bubble.

Its another boat where someone is taking loads of close up pictures which you have to piece together and it also micro highlights any tiny flaws which are to be expected on a 15 odd year old boat. To be fair if you're taking pictures under a canopy you dont have much choice. I bet the boat looks better in the flesh than in some of the photos.

Again, look at the engine pictures. Zooming in shows corrosion on clips whereas an overall shot would show a well maintained and clean for year engine bay.

If you do want to sell the boat and go about it properly I'm convinced all these boats can find a home but at the moment you are competing against dealers who prep stock boats up to the nines. I can buy a cheaper replacement for my P42 from Princess or other manufacturers than I can from many of the used boats listed for sale. Many will simply never sell.

What ever route you choose to go down good luck.

Henry :)
 
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