Advice on buying a replacement boat

[Stooriefit]

I'm looking for someone to provide me with advice on which type of boat to buy. I'm happy to pay for this service but I'm unsure who to contact.

My problem is that I bought a Bavaria 32 Cruiser in 2005. Although it is great in lots of ways I find it very twitchy to sail - I put this down to her light displacement and, in part, my lack of experience of sailing such a modern cruiser. Prior to owning the Bavaria I owned a Pandora which I sailed for ~25 years. Whilst I would probably persevere with the Bavaria, my wife, who is not the keenest of sailors, really is not comfortable in the boat in anything above a force 4. As a result I am thinking of selling the Bavaria and looking for something else.

I'm think my answer lies in buying a heavy displacement boat with a longish keel. I would prefer to buy new as I envisage keeping it for a long time (that was my philosophy in buying the Bavaria), but I'm now thinking that maybe folly again. I'm not sure what would best suit our purpose - Contessa 32 / Rival 32-34/ Vancouver 28-32 / Midget 31 are running through my mind.

Anyway that is my dilemma - all thoughts / suggestions welcome. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[jerryat]

Westerly Fulmar? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Sans Bateau]

Alastair99

Welcome to the forum.

You will, I assure you, get lots and lots of comment on you post.

I'd get your wife to see inside one of the boats you mention, they will be worlds apart from your Bav.

How much do you plan to spend?

 

[eclipsemullet]

A Nicholson 31 might suit you extremely well. They are very sea-kindly in any seaway.

E-mail me if you would like a test sail.

 

[Whitelighter]

I have done hundreds of miles on a Moody 31 - very solid boats that take a lot of weather. The interior still feels modern, and they can be had for sensible money. The later S31 is perhaps more modern inside, and was inproduction till 1996.

 

[Channel Ribs]

Welcome aboard Mr 99,

Sounds to me like you already have a pretty clear idea of the right way to go, not sure you need to take on a buyer's agent. I see there has already been one invite to view a forumite's foibles. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Aja]

Welcome. Just an opinion, but all the replacement boats you suggest will not have anything like the internal volume you or your wife have come to expect.

In addition they are also quite a bit older which mean that they may come with inherited problems against a 'newish' Bavaria.

If you invest the full return you get from the Bavaria, you could probably get a more modern, but stable design more suited to the type of sailing you wish to do.

I dont think employing an agent or surveyor will answer your questions. You will get more success by test sailing a selection of boats. Only you (and your wife) will know what is comfortable.

Good luck

Donald

 

[Stooriefit]

> £65k

 

[Sans Bateau]

Mr 99

How many boats did you try/consider before buying the Bav?

 

[Twister_Ken]

That money might just get you a Rustler 36, or a Vancouver 34, anything but twitchy and quite habitable below, but nothing like as roomy as a Bav. Mind, most of what's below decks in a Bav is air, and there's only a certain amount of that you need.

 

[H4B]

Alastair99

I'm with jerryat Westerly Fulmar

Unless your loaded or extremely busy keep your money make a 'short list' and make your own decision , its all part of the 'fun'. All depends on where you want to go really.

Howard

 

[Sans Bateau]

Go easy guys with the Fulmar recommendations. I have once or twice recommended Etaps. Sailfree then took it upon himself to post a snotty derogatory thread about me! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Mirelle]

Long keel, non twitchy, to be kept for a long time...

I don't suppose you have, er,. considered, a real boat , made out of , er. wood?

There are quite a few around, if you look carefully. Some of them are in very nice condition, too.

Personally, I find the Fulmar a bit twitchy, but not a bad boat, if you like that sort of thing.

But why not try a real boat?

 

[Roach1948]

Re: Long keel, non twitchy, to be kept for a long time...

I tend to agree with Mirelle. There are plenty of recently restored wooden yachts out there for the fraction of the cost of glass fibre. For example how about this Camper and Nicholson 38 for under 50K, recently restored and a comfy interior that matches anything modern. I am not a broker - just did a quick search. As Mirelle says, there are plenty out there.

 

[Bat21]

Please point me in the general direction of any Vancouver 34's at 65K, that money may put you in an aged 32 allowing for a 10K refit!!

 

[Tomkat17]

I have sailed modern Moodys and Beneteaus and the older design Contessa 32. From a sailing point of view I would take the Contessa every time, but you have to be prepared to compromise on the living accomodation as it does not come close in space to the modern boats. However you can still by a new Contessa 32.

 

[Lakesailor]

[ QUOTE ]
my wife, who is not the keenest of sailors, really is not comfortable in the boat in anything above a force 4.

[/ QUOTE ] The final arbiter in this quest is going to be your wife, otherwise you'd stick with the Bav.
So include her in the seeking, viewing and test-sailing to ensure you don't end up in the mire again.
Others have warned you about losing the accommodation and airiness of the modern boat, but I don't think you have expressed a preference. If you come from a Pandora I assume you're used to narrow and slightly restricted accommodation?

 

[Sailfree]

Well can you make a positive recommendation for an etap, then I can make my snotty remarks!

Seriously Alistair99 you have come across what I consider the modern dilema when trying to buy new boats. Most new boats are of the AWB character are light and airy down below go well in light airs and can handle heavier conditions but need to be reefed down early. Most of these (including the more expensive quality boats) now have an AVS of about 120deg to 125 deg. Even new quality Swedish boats have an AVS not exceeding 130deg although the ballast ratio may be higher than the 30 to 35% of modern AWB.

Without getting too technical what we are discussing is the stiffness of a boat.

Most Blue water boats and the older designs have a AVS of about 160 deg. Many of these had long keels and are not so manoeuvrable in Marinas but a bow thruster helps. Few have survived as boats that can still be sold as a new boat. The Rustler36 is one and I believe Contessas (not a long keel) can still be made to order but for any given length the are 2 to 3 times more expensive than their AWB equivalent.

These boats tend to have smaller portholes, darker mohogany wood (rustler is in teak) and narrower beams. A number of boats that shall we say were in the middle between these two groups are no longer made eg Westerleys, Starlights, Sigmas etc immediately come to mind.

I have posted before about what boat would you resurrect if you could but the reality seems that there is no volume market for what is in between the 2 extremes.

Having made what you consider to be one mistake I suggest you look at many of these boats. Sailors are friendly people ask at marinas could you look at their boat. I once looked at a well looked after Westerley Oceanlord that I knew to be a solid seagoing boat only to have my wife remark she hated it due to the dark interior!

Hopefully other more knowledgable than me can suggest some boats but I don't think examples in good condition will be achievable on your budget.

The demise of the middle ground with AVS of say 140 deg and ballast ratios of say 40 to 50% is because the public are not prepared to pay what they cost when AWB's like your current Bavaria offer such excellent value for money.

 

[Sans Bateau]

[ QUOTE ]
Well can you make a positive recommendation for an etap, then I can make my snotty remarks!

[/ QUOTE ]

At least you can spell Etap now /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Your points about AVS are very valid, I think, if someone can confirm, with an older boat, although the AVS will be greater, she will be initialy tender (less form stability) thus she will heel quite a bit before firming up. Also, dont these low freeboard 'traditional' boats get a bit wetter in the cockpit? Would SWMBO like that?

 

[FullCircle]

My goodness what a rash of answers requiring more money spent.

From your description, it would seem that you have done a fair bit of sailing with the less rig/sail area ratio which is associated and normal with older boats.
It sounds to me as if you are holding onto the full rig in too high a wind, as these modern craft sail best almost upright.
My Jeanneau 35 needs reefing at 14 knots, and goes much faster for it. Also sails at no more than 12 degrees heel.
Try balancing the sail plan, or at best get a quick all lines led aft reefing system, and possibly save your money.