Advice on boat models for UK/Scandi cruise requested

Bristolfashion

Bristolfashion

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Hi all, I'm after some advice on boats to consider for a planned European adventure. I'm aware that it is difficult to respond to vague questions so I'll do my best to be precise, concise and give enough info. If my post is therefore a bit lengthy, please forgive me and if I've missed an essential bit of info, please steer me in the right direction.

So, we are currently resident in Australia, although we hail from Bristol. We (husband & wife) have owned and lived on our Compass Northerner 28 for 2 years and have sailed / explored from Sydney north to Bowen (the north end of the tropical Whitsundays) and all the way South to Tasmania. A total distance of around 5000 nm. The Northerner 28 was designed in 1966, ours is a 1976 build. It is a classic glass boat of the period. Tiller steer, long keel, not fast, low freeboard, slim, limited internal room and very seaworthy. No fridge or shower. Ours has been repowered with a VP MD2020C 19hp engine and rerigged to a larger (11m) fractional rig from a 10m masthead rig.

In 2019 we plan to buy a boat in the UK to circumnavigate the UK and also cruise Scandinavia (we don't have time pressures, so over several seasons as required). The Shetland to Norway trip is a bucket list item. Whilst we're fine with overnight / longer passages when required, we really like poking about in harbours, estuaries and coves, anchoring, exploring ashore and the like (o.k, we're missing the pubs). We have no problems using marinas for comfort, convenience and to sit out bad weather. Due to proximity of family, we would probably get the boat ready, shakedown and practice around the Solent (and we love the IOW).

So, having decided what we want to do, a few design criteria.

1. Not deep draft. At least able to take the ground for harbour walls etc. Possibly bilge keel. We do like our current long keel and, no, it doesn't steer backwards! Our keel at 1.3m works well.

2. Comfortable to live on for extended cruising - but note we've been pretty happy in mostly fair weather in a pretty small 28'. Good deck protection & a protected steering position, possibly a pilot house/hard dodger etc. Some form of heating. Standing room in at least some of the cabin (I'm just over 6').

3. We don't want a big boat. We think no more than 32' but feel free to treat that as a flexible figure. As small as can meet our requirements. We have the use of a 10m berth, so that's an absolute top.

4. Our current boat is a bit slow, something at least a little faster would be nice. Or certainly no slower! The Compass often cruises at 5knts.

5. Seaworthy. Comfortable motion at sea.

6. Good cruising performance under sail. Reasonable cruising under power / motor sailing when necessary.

7. Fibre glass hull

8. Electric anchor winch (yep, happy to fit one). It's cheaper and less painful than the bad back/physiotherapy.

9. Protected rudder & prop.

10. Relatively easy to maintain - no lifting out the engine to replace a fuse.

11. Easy to handle for a couple.

A few possible nice to haves but not essential.

1. Room for a couple to visit for a weekend (again, we're not thinking luxury)

2. Good deck lockers.

3. Tiller steer.

4. An attractive boat shape and interior. We don't find modern boxy plastic boats beguiling.

Things we don't really need.

1. Shower

2. Fridge

3. Fancy stuff of any description

4. Racing performance.

5. Suitability for long ocean passages.

Pricewise we are flexible, but something around £20k would be ideal. Up to £30k is fine. We imagine it would be a well proven cruising design from the 1980s. We are both handy, but don't want a project. As it's a specific trip, ease of resale is important.

We haven't made any particular decision on rig. We have a fractional sloop, but have an interest in ketches & cutters. I suspect a sloop will be most practical, but we're open.

We have been searching the net and reading around. To give a flavour, three boats that have caught our eye are the Westerly Fulmar, LM30 and Contessa 26 (too small probably but cute & seaworthy).

We are heading back to the UK shortly for a few months and hope to kick a few keels. We can then keep an eye on the market before buying next year. If anyone in the Southampton/Bristol area has something along these lines and would be generous enough to show us aboard that would be lovely. We'll also be taking our Coastal Skipper exam in July based in Gosport (where did I put those brass dividers)

At this stage, what would be terribly helpful is to generate a longish list of boat models to consider. As we narrow down our list, we can ask some questions about particular models. If you think our criteria or price band needs a rethink, let us know.

Obviously, opinions on boats or features to avoid are also valued.

Thank you for reading & in anticipation of advice, questions, encouragement & suggestions.

Cheers
 
Look at a Vancouver 32 might be a bit over £30K but as you seem happy with a 28' boat a Vancouver 27 or 28 would be in budget. I suggest you put heating on your list of desirables.
 
Being able to take the ground may greatly enhance the number of small harbours and places you can visit, as there are many of them in these tidal waters. The solution to this is a bilge keel boat which many turn their nose up at but there are literally thousands in the UK alone.
I have a Westerly ( Fulmar) one that sails significantly better than most long keel options but not quite as close winded as the fin keel variant. Moody and Hunter also do some good ones, and many of these will be available in your price range. Your indicated range should offer you a wide choice of used boats from the 80's onwards. Enjoy your search.
 
A long keel boat can easily take the ground alongside a harbour wall or with legs without a wall to lean on. Considering a couple of the passages that he is indicating Shetland to Norway then the motion of a long keel vessel would be a lot less tiring than a bilge keel. I have sailed both Fulmar and Saddler 32 bilge keelers in heavy weather across the southern Irish Sea and my own long keeled boats and I know which were the most comfortable.
But different people have different ideas and that helps the world go round.:D
 
From that description, I'd be having a look at the Westerly Discuss. Whilst it does not have a covered steering position, It has an enormous protected area under the sprayhood where you could fit the autohelm controls...
 
scruff said:
From that description, I'd be having a look at the Westerly Discuss. Whilst it does not have a covered steering position, It has an enormous protected area under the sprayhood where you could fit the autohelm controls...
Click to expand...

Yes it would be a good and proven option.
 
scruff said:
From that description, I'd be having a look at the Westerly Discuss. Whilst it does not have a covered steering position, It has an enormous protected area under the sprayhood where you could fit the autohelm controls...
Click to expand...

Is that the bilge keel version of the Westerly Debate or the fin keel version of the Westerly Argue? I can never remember... :-)
 
The budget will be a limiting factor (as ever) and there are many older style (60/70s designs) that will fit such as Nic 32, Elizabethan 31, Rustler 31 as examples, very similar to your current boat. All "suffer" from limited accommodation for the length but meet just about all your other requirements. Challenge will be finding one of that type in good condition. Within a £30k budget though you can look at a wider range of more modern cruisers, some of which are available as bilge keel. The Westerly Discus already mentioned would be on the list (near the top), but it has wheel steering. The Fulmar would also be there, but it does not have a protected prop - not that this is really a problem as you can easily fit a rope cutter - you may well find one already fitted. Sadler 32 is within budget, but less roomy as is the bigger 34. Various Moody models, older 30 and 33/36, but fin keel. Various other Westerlys such as Seahawk and Falcon or older Conway would suit, particularly if you like centre cockpit.

The choice is really huge in theory, but as I said earlier the challenge is finding one in budget, including updating and repairs. Key thing will be to find one with a good engine and many of the cheaper ones are cheap because they still have the 30/40 year old original.

All of the boats mentioned are perfectly capable of undertaking the sort of passages you are thinking of - that is what they were designed for. Of course how they behave varies and you will find advocates of all of them. The reality is that the success of such projects is more to do with the crew capability than the boat.
 
An interesting comment regarding budget. Bearing in mind our generally modest requirements, would there be an opinion that a bit more cash would make a wider range/number of suitable boats? If so, what is the magic figure?

There are already thought provoking & interesting responses. We've been YouTube watching today to get a flavour of some of the models suggested. Thank you.
 
Bristolfashion said:
An interesting comment regarding budget. Bearing in mind our generally modest requirements, would there be an opinion that a bit more cash would make a wider range/number of suitable boats? If so, what is the magic figure?

There are already thought provoking & interesting responses. We've been YouTube watching today to get a flavour of some of the models suggested. Thank you.
Click to expand...

There isn't a magic figure, just that more money generally allows for a newer and/or a more highly specced boat. The experience of many here is that buying a boat in this range invariably results in further expenditure of somewhere between 25-50% of the purchase cost on upgrading/repairing. Most of these boats will be 35+ years old, had many owners and probably for sale because the current owner does not want to spend what is required to get it up to scratch.

This of course means potential bargains for savvy DIYers, of which there are many here or serious money pits for the less experienced or able. Assuming structural integrity the items that usually need upgrading are rigs, sails, engines, electronics, electrics and interior furnishings, all of which costs many thousands £s.

Suggest you wait until you get here and view a few potentially suitable boats to get an idea of what they are like, and what you would like to have and work out how much you will need to spend to achieve that. If a boat requires all of the above replacing, then ask for it for free! In reality all will need some expenditure and it is for you to decide what is essential, what is desirable and how long you are going to keep the boat as you will not recover much of your expenditure if you sell in a short time. Many people buy the very best boat they can if they are going to keep it for a long time and use it well. Others start with a cheaper, lesser boat and upgrade as they go along. The problem with the latter strategy is that the boat fixing time can exceed the sailing time.
 
Bristolfashion said:
An interesting comment regarding budget. Bearing in mind our generally modest requirements, would there be an opinion that a bit more cash would make a wider range/number of suitable boats? If so, what is the magic figure?

There are already thought provoking & interesting responses. We've been YouTube watching today to get a flavour of some of the models suggested. Thank you.
Click to expand...

I am sure you are more than capable of doing the research but I have only found 1 V32: https://www.rightboat.com/fr/boats-...7247bf57-2dc6-42cf-96df-0f117e01e257/rb177366
A nice looking 28: http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...Kingdom?refSource=browse listing#.WxpvAi17F-U
Unfortunately there does not seem to be any of the very rare 4 berth 27s and 28s available.
I am very biased as I sailed 1000s of miles in Vancouver 27,28, 32 and 34s all good strong sea boats and well built which is not to say they don't as all boats especially of the age yo are looking at have some problems. They tend to be owned by people that sail long distances and generally look after their boats.
 
These are rather nice, though the cockpit is on the small side:

http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/d80518/d80518.htm

They are very roomy (of the type) and are well put together. You may find the performance in the same envelope as your Northerner, though the Barbican would thunder along in a good breeze. You might do a deal of motoring anyway in the Baltic and it is not a particularly heavy boat, despite the profile.
Lead ballast, this is often a sign worthy of note.
Not very long ago this would have been a 50k boat, in the present market it may well go for nearer 20.
 
Last edited:
doug748 said:
These are rather nice, though the cockpit is on the small side:

http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/d80518/d80518.htm

They are very roomy (of the type) and are well put together. You may find the performance in the same envelope as your Northerner, though the Barbican would thunder along in a good breeze. You might do a deal of motoring anyway in the Baltic and it is not a particularly heavy boat, despite the profile.
Lead ballast, this is often a sign worthy of note.
Not very long ago this would have been a 50k boat, in the present market it may well go for nearer 20.
Click to expand...

Yes that's a nice boat and eminently suitable for what the OP describes.

And there is the bigger 35 for that little bit of extra cash.:D http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=534910

Sailed on a 35 and they are excellent sea boats.
 
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Someone has already mention the Barbican 30 we are selling.

If you want an moderately fast and extremely seaworthy long keel boat how about https://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/j77418/j77418.htm - very oldfashioned and a very "plain vanilla" interior, but if you are used to a 28 ft long-keeler similar sapce with quite a lot of recent new bits including complete rig - spars, rigging and sails.

Also a Vancouver 27 - https://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/n62617/n62617.htm - done a transtlantic in present ownership.
 
The crossing from Shetland to Norway is only about 200NM, and as long as you pick your weather carefully should be no real problem. You are as likely to meet exciting conditions on the way to Shetland as you are crossing. I've done the more southerly route Lossiemouth > Sandnes (near Stavanger) >Peterhead return in a 35ft Fin keel Jeanneau Sunrise. (In 2014) That was almost 350NM each way. Some of which was hard work. Leeway was quite an issue over the last 100 miles near Norway. (65 hours out 54 hours back)
Came back from Haugesund > Lerwick last year in a bigger fin keel boat taking 30hours.
The northern part of the North Sea is quite big enough to make it difficult to cross without meeting the start or end of some real weather. Or wait for flat calm and fog? Navigation is not much of a problem.
In Norway (Sweden & Denmark) you will find anchoring / tieing to rock bolts and municipal quays quite common. Marinas where they exist are sometimes private clubs with a few visitor places. It's pretty quiet in late May to Mid June. Then it goes a bit berserk as almost all of Scandinavia goes on hols at once. That mad busyness lasts to the end of July when the holidays finish. Its a short season so they really go for it.
Coming back, we postponed to end August. Weather wise in the Northern North Sea it gets more boisterous from mid August onwards . There are still windows of opportunity but they get shorter and shorter. A well found 28-30ft boat should be fine.
 
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