Admiralty V Imray

D

Deviation

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 Jan 2016
Messages
93
Visit site
Hello all,
We are looking to broaden our horizons a little and want to venture a bit further West. I know it's not an Atlantic crossing or anything even remotely exciting to the vast majority of you seasoned salty sea dogs but it is to us! We are based in Portsmouth Harbour and would like to visit Poole. Following a dinner the other night it transpires there are either Admiralty or Imray people, but I would really like to know what the advantages or disadvantages of these choices are please. And if it's Admiralty can someone please help me with suggestions as I have spent a fruitless few hours trying to figure out what charts we would need. I haven't even got to Imray yet and already feel overwhelmed with choice!
 
I don't have the information to hand, but most of us, I suspect, use the chart packs. I'm an Admiralty person myself. With Admiraly, you have the reassurance that they are to date and reliable. I have come across the odd omission from Imray, but they do good packs, and the additional information makes them better value for money. In the end, it's partly a matter of cash, but also an aesthetic thing. They will both do the job. Personally, I can do without the harbour plans, which I can also get from Reeds.
 
I'm an Imray man because they are cheaper and I like the colour scheme better. In functional terms I think there's no difference.

Would need to know more about what you plan to do but I might be tempted to buy the Imray planning charts on paper and get navionics on a phone for the detail.

Imray planning charts would be C15 and C4
Imray folios (set of smaller charts with more detail) would be 2200 2300.
https://www.imray.com/imraycharts.php

You can also get the Imray charts as an app (or even a PC!).
 
Last edited:
I just bought all the Admiralty portfolios for the south coast. however I really like the French charts for the French side of the channel, the chart of Isle Chaussey is amazing especially if green is your favourite colour.
 
Nothing wrong with either.

Basically:

Admiralty:

Pro

National Charting Agency
Adhere to International Standards for presentation etc. This is important if you're going further afield
Source of data for all other charts
Provide chart-packs of areas widely used by leisure sailors.

Con

Can be more expensive (but the difference is minor)
The symbology, although standard, isn't to everyone's liking

Imray

Pro

Well-established company
Provides charts tailored to yachting requirements
Widely available
Somewhat cheaper - but I don't think its enough to swing a decision

Con

They don't do their own survey - the data are from the UKHO or other similar national charting agencies. Therefore it lags HO data in currency
Data are reformatted to their own style. This processing step can introduce errors.
Does NOT conform to International Charting standards; if you're going elsewhere this may be important.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
Nothing wrong with either.

Basically:

Admiralty:

Pro

National Charting Agency
Adhere to International Standards for presentation etc. This is important if you're going further afield
Source of data for all other charts
Provide chart-packs of areas widely used by leisure sailors.

Con

Can be more expensive (but the difference is minor)
The symbology, although standard, isn't to everyone's liking

Imray

Pro

Well-established company
Provides charts tailored to yachting requirements
Widely available
Somewhat cheaper - but I don't think its enough to swing a decision

Con

They don't do their own survey - the data are from the UKHO or other similar national charting agencies. Therefore it lags HO data in currency
Data are reformatted to their own style. This processing step can introduce errors.
Does NOT conform to International Charting standards; if you're going elsewhere this may be important.
Click to expand...

I am often pleasantly surprised at the skills and knowledge shown on this forum. What a valuable answer.
Peter
 
I used to be a confirmed Admiralty Chartist, but full size charts don't fit into my chart tables, so I started buying leisure packs. They are OK, but lack good wider area coverage (is that large scale or small scale) so I started buying Imray C series and now I find I use them most of the time.
 
Deviation said:
Hello all,
We are looking to broaden our horizons a little and want to venture a bit further West. I know it's not an Atlantic crossing or anything even remotely exciting to the vast majority of you seasoned salty sea dogs but it is to us! We are based in Portsmouth Harbour and would like to visit Poole. Following a dinner the other night it transpires there are either Admiralty or Imray people, but I would really like to know what the advantages or disadvantages of these choices are please. And if it's Admiralty can someone please help me with suggestions as I have spent a fruitless few hours trying to figure out what charts we would need. I haven't even got to Imray yet and already feel overwhelmed with choice!
Click to expand...

Poole? A nice place to visit. My first foray outside the Solent took me there and then on to Weymouth. Good choice.

I suggest you use Imray or Admiralty charts. The important bit for me was following the channel along the beach towards Poole harbour entrance, the channel in Poole harbour itself and the referencing of the pontoon layout in Poole Quay Boat Haven, which you will find within the Marina Almanac that you will also need to buy.

Enjoy your sail!
 
Another vote for Imray. Easier to read and use plus they have additional information with the insets for harbours, anchorages etc. Fine for the Solent and Dorset coast. Nothing scary about navigation from the Solent to Poole (except the wind is often against you going west!) provided you use the tide. Leaving Hurst just after the start of the ebb gives you a whole tide to arrive at Poole close to low water. You can then either anchor in Studland and wait for the flood or if under 2m draft creep in close to the beach using the well marked East Looe channel. The harbour entrance can be a bit crowded and bumpy and sensible to use the engine, articularly as you may have to dodge the chain ferry. Once you are inside it is relatively peaceful and lots of choice of anchorages or marinas.
 
BelleSerene said:
That is a really helpful, experienced comparison: thank you. Say, in what way are Imray charts better tailored to yachting requirements than the Admiralty (OK, leisure folio anyway) ones?
Click to expand...

It's the overall approach. Admiralty charts are designed for shipping as their main client; Imray don't have to worry about things that only matter to big ships. Also, Imray do include things that don't matter to big ships, though that's less the case than it was in the past with the Admiralty leisure folios.

I avoided giving an opinion in my first post, but I prefer Admiralty. It's mainly a matter of taste and familiarity, though. The difference between a first-generation product (Admiralty) and second (Imray) is important to me as well - I worked for over 30 years in making maps, and I know how easily error creeps in! There are issues such as the treatment of chart objects that are derived data in the original Admiralty data - for example, depth contours - where a different representation may make something seem more or less authoritative than the original. Also, the reprocessing (for technical reasons) can result in closed areas not being closed, and the colour scheme being incorrect. Navionics data have suffered from this according to reports on here; I haven't heard of such problems with Imray, but they are certainly possible!

Incidentally, I should note that errors creep in in the best-regulated systems. We had a very careful system of checking maps before publication with at least 3 or 4 separate checks carried out. We still once had a map that went out with a really prominent spelling mistake in part of the title text ("parantheses" instead of"parentheses", IIRC!)! Admiralty charts are subject to a system of checks that is far more rigorous than ours could be; I'd imagine that Imray would be about on the same level as ours. We operated with a staff of 6; I guess Imray have a similar sized staff on charting. I should know - a former member of staff at BAS worked at Imray before coming to us - but I don't.
 
Last edited:
I was always traditionally an Admiralty man but switched my allegiance around 6 years ago and now I prefer Imray... I like the colour scheme and the way they pack down into a protective wallet.

The reality is though that I will continue to buy and use both. For me it really is more about the coverage they offer for the trip you have planned. Once you are out of UK waters there are often other local options that are much better.

From Portsmouth to Poole I would use an Imray C3 and C4. I would also carry a Reeds Almanac for more information about ports and tidal streams etc...

Pete
 
There's an argument for both. I prefer the admiralty charts but the Imray ones are printed on waterproof paper. if you have a small boat, as I do, this is why I'm replacing my Small boat portfolios with Imray charts. I can live with the small inaccuracies but not soggy charts on a channel crossing....
 
When I used to dive Admeralty full size were the only ones to use as they have wrecks marked, the folios have reduced data. When I moved to sailing I had no real preference but I compaired the folios and went for the Imray as I thought the Solent - Poole - Weymouth coverage was better, I liked the feel of the 'waterproof' paper and the harbour inserts were better.
I now only use electronic charting and wouldn't go back.
 
BelleSerene said:
That is a really helpful, experienced comparison: thank you. Say, in what way are Imray charts better tailored to yachting requirements than the Admiralty (OK, leisure folio anyway) ones?
Click to expand...

Imray charts seem to cover sensibly large areas. The problem I find with the leisure folios is that it's very difficult to plan a passage of, say, 30 miles on them, because that almost always needs two or even three charts to be consulted. For the folios I have there is often no overlap at all between charts, which is also a nuisance.

On the other hand, the smaller (or are they larger?) scale charts for harbours and ports are a bit skimpy and you rarely get anything to help with an anchorage which isn't a harbour. The Leisure Folio charts are much better for that, but still not great; I wouldn't be without my proper full-size charts of the Sounds of Gigha and Iona, for example.

I'm not really bothered about corrections. Not much changes on the west coast and the rocks are generally pretty static. My Sound of Iona chart has been serving me well for almost thirty years now. If I was sailing in an area where more important stuff changed more often, I might worry about the up-to-dateness of Imray.
 
Topcat47 said:
There's an argument for both. I prefer the admiralty charts but the Imray ones are printed on waterproof paper. if you have a small boat, as I do, this is why I'm replacing my Small boat portfolios with Imray charts. I can live with the small inaccuracies but not soggy charts on a channel crossing....
Click to expand...

Admiralty full-size charts are waterproof but, as you say, they leisure ones are certainly not. I wonder how many of the folios they sell to people who actually use them and how many they sell to commercial ships wanting the figleaf of something theoretically OK for SOLAS/MSA while they actually navigate by tablet, road atlas or wild guesswork.
 
Lots of useful information above. Another small point you may want to consider is where the edges of the chart are in relation to your proposed sailing area. For my cruising area, off the west of Scotland, I find two C series Imray charts cover the whole area whereas I would need three or more Admiralty ones for the same coverage.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top