Admiralty or Imray charts?

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Steve N

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I've got a sneaking feeling I might be inciting a religious war here but can you tell me the pros and cons of these two paper chart formats, or why you favour one over the other?

I'm looking to buy charts for the SE coast. Imray do a convenient pack (#2100) for £37.50, but I'd need two Admiralty packs (SC5605/6) at £44.30 each, meaning that the Admiralty charts would cost me cost an additional £50. What do I get for this extra dosh?
 
I think the main thing that determines it (at least for sailing in the UK and nearby) is habit and personal preference. Personally I like the Imray 2000-series folios, so I use those wherever they're available (they only cover popular leisure areas). For consistency, I then buy Imray elsewhere even when they're big charts rather than folios.

Imray like to add various useful information like phone numbers and bridge opening times around the edges of their chart; must admit I'd tend to look in a pilot book for this stuff but it's a nice touch. They also include lots of port plans (the Baie de Seine chart has over a dozen of 'em) whereas I think the Admiralty take the view that you should have a separate large-scale chart for those - sometimes they deliberately omit all detail from the small-scale chart to force you to switch. In general I imagine Imray as helpful where Admiralty are po-faced and formal :)

It's not that big a deal, though, and I can happily use Admiralty instead if required. You don't need to stick to one or the other.

Pete
 
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I must admit that I prefer the Admiralty charts, more choice both in coverage and scales. On the other hand if you need a lot of charts Imray charts come in a lot cheaper. When I was sailing in a restricted area I used Admiralty exclusively, but on a long trip my paper charts were exclusively Imray for cost reasons. My electronic charts were based on Admiralty.
 
I trust Admiralty charts more than Imray as a result of a few incidents, in particular diverting to the Isles of Scilly because of heavy weather only to find that the Imray C7 Falmouth to Isles of Scilly chart that the owner had on board rather copped out on its coverage of the Isles of Scilly.

I really preferred the Admiralty Small Craft Editions, but these have now been discontinued. Ggggrr.

So I either buy the Admiralty Leisure Folios and put up with swapping chartlets more often as the voyage proceeds, or buy the Imray charts where there's a significant cost advantage and nothing complex like the Isles of Scilly to tempt them to take shortcuts. So, for example, I use the Imray C63 for the Firth of Clyde as it is not generally a difficult area to sail.
 
Well, as others have said, it does depend a lot on your personal preferences.

However, it is worth remembering that Imray don't go out and do their own surveys! It is ALL Admiralty (or rather, Hydrographic Office) data, being packaged in different ways. My own view (and I spent a long time working on maps) is that the further from the original data you are, the more possibility of error or degradation of data there is. I do know (because a former colleague used to work for Imray) that Imray charts are re-drafted; this is obviously a potential source of error.

Another point is that the Admiralty charts follow a set of mapping conventions that are agreed internationally; get an equivalent chart from any other nation that is a member of the IHO, and they will look very similar (they have to because of international agreements on chart coverage and "rebadging" of charts). The only real difference will be the language of the notes! Again, Imray have a look that is their own, and different from the international standard.

I'd certainly advise a sailor a) not to mix chart types; that's a recipe for confusion and b) if you are sailing beyond the reach of Imray charts, I'd stick to Admiralty charts, as other nation's charts will look very similar to Admiralty ones. But if Imray cover your chosen sailing area well, and you don't intend to go beyond the areas Imray cover well, then there is no reason not to choose them.

PS, perhaps I should mention that I have "proof-read" some Admiralty charts of Antarctica!
 
Personal choice. Admiralty every time for me. I just wish they had a service like the Ordnance Survey where you could "centre", perhaps edge would be a better word, a chart where you wanted and get one printed for your requirements.
 
Camelia said:
Personal choice. Admiralty every time for me. I just wish they had a service like the Ordnance Survey where you could "centre", perhaps edge would be a better word, a chart where you wanted and get one printed for your requirements.
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That isn't really possible because unlike the OS, there isn't a uniform set of base data for the whole of the waters covered by the HO. Survey scale varies from place to place, depending on the requirements of safe navigation. The highest detail is only necessary where there are harbour approaches, narrow channels or similar; big areas with few dangers don't need much detail in their charting.

However, it is also a truism of cartography that you will always need the point that lies where 4 maps meet!
 
Grew up with Admiralty Charts so thats a first preference.

Since doing a bit of cruising and delivering, though, I find Imray good for passagemaking just coz you need far less.

Have used US, French, Spanish and absolutely true, Austrian.

Seeing as the whole point is to stop you from doinging a lumpy bit, I suppose any will do really!

Mmmm how wishy washy was that!
 
Dont disagree with what has been said above but

Imray, land is green and beaches yellow (makes sense)
Imray is waterproof
Imray is harder to tear
Imray sell individual charts from their portfolio for a tenner so you can replace the one that gets used all of the time
Imray provides small craft data
Imray charts include harbour plans so you buy less charts
Imray charts are cheaper

AC are updated more often
AC do not expect you to do as many corrections when you buy them.


Who cares which is closer to any international standard? If you are buying charts in the UK its not really relevant what they do in Timbuktu!

My yachts carry both but where possible we go for Imray, as they last longer for us. Our skipper and students however could use either.
 
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I prefer Admiralty but I've got some Imray which do have some practical benefits as Stormforce has listed. I'm happy to use either.

I like charts. I think I was a cartographer in a previous life.
 
Doug_Stormforce said:
Who cares which is closer to any international standard? If you are buying charts in the UK its not really relevant what they do in Timbuktu!
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It's not a matter of closer; Admiralty charts adhere to an international standard; Imray charts don't.

If you're cruising area extends to a location Imray do not cover, having a single standard is a good thing; it reduces the likelihood of misinterpreting the chart. There are places closer than Timbuktu that aren't covered by Imray; for example Norway. Admiralty style charts are available world-wide, from all the primary charting organizations.

Disclaimer - I am not (yet) an ocean crosser, and I could equally well use Imray or Admiralty where I sail - I choose to use Admiralty, which I grew up with and with which I happen to have had some professional contact. And I agree the cartographic standards for international charting are not always ideal; they break down rather badly in Antarctica!
 
I currently charter so don't have my own charts yet but I like the Admiralty ones as i find that they are very easy on the eye. Don't the Imray ones colour the whole sea blue?
This makes them less easy to read in bad light IMHO.

NB. Away from any form of chart at mo so all from memory
 
AntarcticPilot said:
That isn't really possible because unlike the OS, there isn't a uniform set of base data for the whole of the waters covered by the HO. Survey scale varies from place to place, depending on the requirements of safe navigation. The highest detail is only necessary where there are harbour approaches, narrow channels or similar; big areas with few dangers don't need much detail in their charting.

However, it is also a truism of cartography that you will always need the point that lies where 4 maps meet!
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Yes and no, plot matching software has been around for a long time and can allow different standards to be overlaid even prioritising the best quality data.
If Taunton thought they could make more money by doing it they would but in reality they leave this to the chart plotter map suppliers who use their data.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
That isn't really possible because unlike the OS, there isn't a uniform set of base data for the whole of the waters covered by the HO. Survey scale varies from place to place, depending on the requirements of safe navigation. The highest detail is only necessary where there are harbour approaches, narrow channels or similar; big areas with few dangers don't need much detail in their charting.

However, it is also a truism of cartography that you will always need the point that lies where 4 maps meet!
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Thanks AntarcticPilot, you make some interesting points.
 
I've always used Admiralty charts until I went to South Brittany for the first time last year. I bought three Admiralty passage charts to cover all the likely offshore passages but a full set of Admiralty coastal and detail charts from Channel Islands to Morbihan was going to be about 12 to 15 sheets and cost a fortune. Imray cover it in about 6 sheets for less than half the price. So I bought the Imray Charts. I had to add French charts for difficult areas but other wise Imray were fine.
 
jimbaerselman said:
For most leisure yachtsmen, it's money (Imray cheaper) vs Admiralty detail.

Now, in areas covered by the NGA it's a very different choice . . .
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I wonder if the UK and Europe was ever available or is genuinely "no longer available" as a sop to the Hydrographic office from the NGA.

At least in America they understand that once the tax payer has paid, the goods are available for collection.

I don't mind what chart I use, Admiralty or Imray. However, most of charts are Admiralty.
 
dt4134 said:
diverting to the Isles of Scilly because of heavy weather only to find that the Imray C7 Falmouth to Isles of Scilly chart that the owner had on board rather copped out on its coverage of the Isles of Scilly.
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On the other hand, the multiple Scilly charts in their 2400 pack seem pretty comprehensive.

Pete
 
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