Adjusting sail trim and rig tension to point higher?

[flaming]

no, fraid I disagree with you.

There's no difference in that situation from being close to the lay line and choosing to pinch for the mark and foot and make 2 tacks. There's will be a point, probably around 10-20 boat lengths, where sailing normally and doing 2 tacks will be faster.
All the tide does in that situation is shift the wind to the right.

 

[Fin]

The reason that you want speed first and then pointing is that you are trying to get as much flow over the keel and rudder as possible. With lots of flow you'll generate lots of lift underwater that will help hold you to windward.

You can have the rig set up perfectly for optimum pointing but it won't go anywhere close to windward if it hasn't got flow over the keel and rudder.

As an aside, all of the advice has generally been about making the sail entry finer to allow you to point higher. But don't forget, the finer the entry the finer the "groove" and the more that you will be punished for poor helming. I've seen people drag the draught right back and not understand why they are going slower.

 

[castaway]

I enjoyed the link you published but am rather sceptical of any diagrams like that that don't include any calculations...basically you can say what you please ..add a picture to 'prove' your statement, and walk away!

I have to say that in the light of what it says however I will have to give it some more thought! Until such time I intent to keep my lee bow firmly to the stream.

Nick

 

[Allan]

How does this work for us fractional sailors?
Allan

 

[William_H]

Hello Allan on a fractional rig unless you have running backstays which provide pull at the top of the forestay then you have rely on the tension of the backstay. Depending on the stiffness of the mast and the location of the top of the forestay this will bend your mast as well as tension the forestay.
Hopefully these two will coincide ie the amount of forestay tension and the mast bend to suit the wind conditions. You will always get forestay sag and with a bit of luck your smaller jibs have been cut with a concave in the luff to allow for sag.
The sag in the forestay feeds cloth into the body of the jib making it too full (too much camber) just when you want it flat. The excess camber is the reason it won't point as well. AFAIK.

Ed I guess we will have to differ on helming from leeward side. I would hate to think that newcomers saw helming from the windward side as a universal rule. I definitely can see better and feel more in touch with the jib by steering from the low side. This may be because of the fractional rig with large mainsail. Obviously the balance of the boat is primary consideration and often dictates helming from the high side but I always get all the crew up and out before the helmsman gets up and out.
Our little racing fleet in division 3 at East Fremantle Yacht Club is a mottly bunch usually about 8 boats up to 28ft with mine by far the smallest at 21 ft. We have won the "most fastests" for the last 5 years with usually around 18 wins per year. Sorry to brag but I do enjoy racing and it is nice to hear from others who enjoy racing. it is a pity you don't describe your boat. good luck olewill

 

[flaming]

[ QUOTE ]
Hello Allan on a fractional rig unless you have running backstays which provide pull at the top of the forestay then you have rely on the tension of the backstay. Depending on the stiffness of the mast and the location of the top of the forestay this will bend your mast as well as tension the forestay.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not entirely the full story.
You will find that most of the forestay load will be ballanced by the swept back spreaders. It's nothing like as easy to do as for a masthead rig, but basically you need to provide a solid platform to tension the forestay against, rather than pulling against the forestay with the backstay. But be carefull, you are also messing with the pre-bend by tensioning the shrouds.

If in doubt give the people who made your mast a call.

 

[Allan]

Hi, thanks for that. My rig tension, mast rake and prebend were set up by a rigger who races a boat with a similar rig. Increasing the backstay tension has a small effect on the forestay tension, the main result is to bend the mast. The top moves back and centre (below the spreaders) moves forward. This flatterns the main and seems improve the pointing ability. On such a small boat it is only possible to tell this on flat water. As soon as there are any significant waves it is not possible to see the few degrees I gain. I have avoided too much tension as I don't like too much strain on the rig or too much stretch for the sails. On a masthead rig would anyone increase the tension of a babystay to put some bend into the mast and flattern the main?
Allan