Adding an inverter - or generator?

[Sticky Fingers]

Hi folks,

New boat nearly here.... It's all-electric but is presently dependent on shore power for 240V, so a boiling a kettle for a cup of tea at anchor isn't going to happen unless I do something. I've had a quote for a generator and it's made my scalp twitch a bit, so I'm looking for cheaper solutions, hence exploring the idea of an inverter. I know little about these things but understand in principle what they do. Supplying 3Kw at 240v to boil a kettle (call it 12.5A at 240V) means about 250A at 12v plus inverter losses. That's going to spank a battery PDQ so I wonder if a dedicated pair (or more) of batteries is needed.

Brands worth looking at? I've had a look at Victron. Based on the cost of their 3KVa units this will be about 1/5th of the cost of a genny so might be a good solution.

Before I go for a quote I want to know a bit more about what's 'normal'... Why does 'pure sine wave' matter? Or does it? What battery type is needed (starter, leisure etc). Do you have one or more "dedicated" inverter sockets, or wire it into the shorepower inlet with a changeover switch (Shorepower / Inverter)? How to stop the calorifier or battery charger kicking in? Approx costs?

Any experiences welcome. Thank you

 

[Portofino]

I’d look no further than a geny .2nd hand or none boat diesel adapted .
Thinking anchoring off or zero shore power on the visiting berths when touring .
Also you can run when motoring .leave the charger off as alternators merrily spinning away .

I can see battery hassle , weird engine ECU codes from low volts etc etc .

It s always nice to carry round your own AC source .....at the touch of a button in a mobo if you intend to spend a reasonable amount of time onboard .
Even power tools as well as kettles , heaters , device chargers , cooking , microwave , hoover up mess etc .and much more .

fwiw the stuff on 220/240 V has separate breakers on the AC side so you can isolate the charger , water heater and such ...this means if you elect to fit a inverter it’s will have its own breaker and best as you say fed by a switch into the general AC board .

How ever there is a risk if stuff is inadvertently turned on ....your bat bank will be killed .
Make sure the engine bat supply is definitely separate to the domestic thats a given ....but I gather some boats French mainly that mat not be so ?

 

[elton]

Kettles are what gas is for. But if you flatly dismiss gas, then stepping up 12V to 240 to boil a kettle, is the most inefficient way to go about it. Find a 12V kettle, and learn to live with the wait.

 

[vas]

can you cook, do you cook, on the hook?
if so, doubt an inverter will do you much good other than the odd kettle.
A generator would be a much better solution (I do have an 8kW generator and a 3KVA victron multiplus but all cooking is gas...)

 

[Sticky Fingers]

can you cook, do you cook, on the hook?
if so, doubt an inverter will do you much good other than the odd kettle.
A generator would be a much better solution (I do have an 8kW generator and a 3KVA victron multiplus but all cooking is gas...)

We do cook on the hook sometimes but it's rarely a full meal, more like bacon sandwiches... but that's a good point. I suppose if I had the funds I'd buy the generator....

 

[mcanderson]

Graham,

Our Bavaria is also all electric and we have both a generator and an inverter. We rarely use the inverter, the generator all the time.

Ask Santa for an early Christmas present.

 

[BruceK]

I have an inverter but only to power very low energy items. Computers, chargers etc that arent designed for 12V or small step ups. Add very efficient 220v fridges to that if you help them along with ice packs to start off. I would go gas as a better option although I dont like gas onboard and use alcohol burners myself.
Much depends on how you use your boat and I know many that cant be without 220 mains and that's fine but we manage well on just 12V and if the kettle takes longer to boil on alcohol it's a great incentive not to overfill the kettle and waste water. Horses for courses. Genny's are great but they clock hours fast and more often than not I'll hear of people with genny issues rather than engine issues. We do however run solar panels to give us a steady 10A charge during the day. Alongside the engines over the course of a trip and the intervening week we have found a comfortable balance.

Edit: we have no shore power facilities on our mooring so have learnt to make good without

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Graham,

Our Bavaria is also all electric and we have both a generator and an inverter. We rarely use the inverter, the generator all the time.

Ask Santa for an early Christmas present.

That's going to need some wrapping up

I have an inverter but only to power very low energy items. Computers, chargers etc that arent designed for 12V or small step ups. Add very efficient 220v fridges to that if you help them along with ice packs to start off. I would go gas as a better option although I dont like gas onboard and use alcohol burners myself.
Much depends on how you use your boat and I know many that cant be without 220 mains and that's fine but we manage well on just 12V and if the kettle takes longer to boil on alcohol it's a great incentive not to overfill the kettle and waste water. Horses for courses. Genny's are great but they clock hours fast and more often than not I'll hear of people with genny issues rather than engine issues. We do however run solar panels to give us a steady 10A charge during the day. Alongside the engines over the course of a trip and the intervening week we have found a comfortable balance.

Edit: we have no shore power facilities on our mooring so have learnt to make good without

The boat is new and has no gas, plus I don't like gas on a boat anyway, so I'm a bit reluctant to undo what's there. We do have shore power on our berth and in most of the places we stay overnight so that's not an issue, it's the odd night away or more particularly, lunchtimes.

 

[BruceK]

And we never stay on our berth. We board, we leave and dont come back till it's time to come home a couple days later. Getting a genny for the odd night that's going to happen I'm guessing a handful of days a year is going to require deep pockets after just buying the boat if you are perfectly normal and consumed the budget then some.
I'll let you in on a dirty little secret. Admiral sneaks a small portable single ring butane stove onboard powered by a 500ml sized disposable butane cannister. That will last many days of kettle boiling and goes in the cupboard when not in use. Quicker than electric too. I dont like it but keep quiet to keep the peace

Terribly uncivilised but it works a treat while you gather funds for that genny

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Typhoon-Living-Stovetop-Whistling-Folding/dp/B079WZGSGR


Bright Spark 1-Piece 34.5 x 28 x 9 cm Powder Coated Steel Caravan and Camping Cooker: Amazon.co.uk: Kitchen & Home

get the gas cannisters from home bargains. They last a lot longer than camping gaz at a fraction of the price

 

[Easticks28]

That's going to need some wrapping up


The boat is new and has no gas, plus I don't like gas on a boat anyway, so I'm a bit reluctant to undo what's there. We do have shore power on our berth and in most of the places we stay overnight so that's not an issue, it's the odd night away or more particularly, lunchtimes.

A good number of the hire fleet on the Norfolk Broads are now all electric. Bloody infernal nuisances !! If they merely switch on a kettle the (diesel!) genny automatically fires up . The essence of the Broads is peace and quiet away from the popular village and pub moorings. Shore power is mostly available there, but not when sitting against the bank out in the countryside or hanging off a mudweight in a Broad .

 

[Sticky Fingers]

... Getting a genny for the odd night that's going to happen I'm guessing a handful of days a year is going to require deep pockets after just buying the boat if you are perfectly normal and consumed the budget then some.

That's exactly what happened...!

... I'll let you in on a dirty little secret. Admiral sneaks a small portable single ring butane stove onboard powered by a 500ml sized disposable butane cannister....

I've got one of those or something very like it. Wonder where it is?

Not a bad idea as a stopgap anyway...

 

[Seastoke]

That's exactly what happened...!


I've got one of those or something very like it. Wonder where it is?

Not a bad idea as a stopgap anyway...

I have found San Miguel , on the hook Helps. Also brucek uses 240 volts for a fridge to cool his beer , problem is it’s my fridge , my beer and my genny.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

The beer. Ah yes.

Well the boat fridge runs on 12V so that's not such a terrible problem but I can certainly confirm the need for a chilled bevvy.

 

[BruceK]

I have found San Miguel , on the hook Helps. Also brucek uses 240 volts for a fridge to cool his beer , problem is it’s my fridge , my beer and my genny.

It's a service I provide to save you from yourself. All that booze, think of the diesel used to cart it around. You should really thank me.

 

[jrudge]

I had an inverter for kettle etc. Firstly you need a 1kw kettle. 3kw is too high.

I was using a cheap eBay inverter. Fullsine on eBay now cheap. It would run microwave ok. For Kettlevand toast I would start one engine and run it at 1500 rpm. It would not run the hot plate.
For the £200 it cost it solved a problem. If it really is occasional use it is fine.

 

[Bouba]

Pure sine wave is best for delicate electronics, laptop for example. But you hear of plenty of people who don’t bother and have had no problems. Pure wave is usually a premium product.
All your boating needs can be, with a little imagination, be run on a battery. Add a solar panel and it’s a permanent solution. But, always the but, it becomes like camping. What makes home so convenient is electricity. Being able to plug in anything makes the boat a home from home.
But if you are going to chose between batteries and a petrol suitcase generator, then better to stick with the batteries.

 

[ashtead]

We have an inverter by mastervolt fitted from new but would love a generator however the price seems excessive for uk usage . If you buy a panda genset I have this impression they have some issues I believe so serious cruisers have other brands I gather but at even more. Personally unless planning nights on hook in med I would go for a mastervolt inverter and if you must as a reserve buy a Honda portable generator to top up batteries to avoid running engines . We don’t use for cooking though apart from microwave and use express for coffees . A Honda portable looks a far cheaper option at say £1k compared to a £10k genset ?

 

[Elessar]

Hi folks,

New boat nearly here.... It's all-electric but is presently dependent on shore power for 240V, so a boiling a kettle for a cup of tea at anchor isn't going to happen unless I do something. I've had a quote for a generator and it's made my scalp twitch a bit, so I'm looking for cheaper solutions, hence exploring the idea of an inverter. I know little about these things but understand in principle what they do. Supplying 3Kw at 240v to boil a kettle (call it 12.5A at 240V) means about 250A at 12v plus inverter losses. That's going to spank a battery PDQ so I wonder if a dedicated pair (or more) of batteries is needed.

Brands worth looking at? I've had a look at Victron. Based on the cost of their 3KVa units this will be about 1/5th of the cost of a genny so might be a good solution.

Before I go for a quote I want to know a bit more about what's 'normal'... Why does 'pure sine wave' matter? Or does it? What battery type is needed (starter, leisure etc). Do you have one or more "dedicated" inverter sockets, or wire it into the shorepower inlet with a changeover switch (Shorepower / Inverter)? How to stop the calorifier or battery charger kicking in? Approx costs?

Any experiences welcome. Thank you

what I did:

I bought a cheap sine wave 2kW inverter. Fitted right next to the batteries.

Above the microwave I fitted a switch to remotely start the inverter.

A relay sits on the inverter output, and if it detects voltage it switches the microwave and 1 galley socket over from shore power to inverter.

I use a 1kW kettle from a caravan shop.

This means I can heat stuff in the microwave OR boil the kettle underway. I don’t use the inverter with the engines off. It kills batteries.

If was doing it again I’d arrange it that the inverter can’t start with the engines off. It now requires discipline.

I lived with that for ages. But a generator is really needed for overnights on the hook. Generator wise I fitted a 3kW whisper power. As much as 16A shorepower pretty much and it’s small and not too pricey. With a water separator exhaust it makes quite a bit less noise than an eberspacher before the ranty men start.

So for now a £300 inverter plus some relays and cable will do the trick and do some more saving.

 

[Bouba]

We have an inverter by mastervolt fitted from new but would love a generator however the price seems excessive for uk usage . If you buy a panda genset I have this impression they have some issues I believe so serious cruisers have other brands I gather but at even more. Personally unless planning nights on hook in med I would go for a mastervolt inverter and if you must as a reserve buy a Honda portable generator to top up batteries to avoid running engines . We don’t use for cooking though apart from microwave and use express for coffees . A Honda portable looks a far cheaper option at say £1k compared to a £10k genset ?

From experience I can say that the suitcase is not the way. The Honda is a lot noisier than you might think, it seams to echo on a boat deck, I’ve had boats near me begging me to turn it off. Plus you have to take great care positioning it because of fumes

 

[Sticky Fingers]

... as a reserve buy a Honda portable generator to top up batteries to avoid running engines . We don’t use for cooking though apart from microwave and use express for coffees . A Honda portable looks a far cheaper option at say £1k compared to a £10k genset ?

From experience I can say that the suitcase is not the way. The Honda is a lot noisier than you might think, it seams to echo on a boat deck, I’ve had boats near me begging me to turn it off. Plus you have to take great care positioning it because of fumes

Yes I'm not considering a portable generator. Ideal world I'd get a proper marine genset. Maybe best to use BruceK's gas idea for this year and budget for doing the job properly in the Spring.