Adding a Furling Jib on removable Inner Fore stay on Bene 373 ?

[Kinsale373]

I've a Bene 373 with In an Mast Furling main ( 25M Sq ) and a 140 % Genoa ( 36MSq. ) Mostly we Cruse but do some white sail club racing -were not very compedetive!
The boat is comfortable up to 15Kn. I geneally start to role the genoa in anything over 17 Kn, to reduce healing. Once we hit 20 Kn I have a few roles in the Genoa when going to windward. I notice when Club racing, that we quickly lose pointing abiliy once we have a few roles in the Genoa- relative to boats with smaller jibs. We seem to have a lot more difficulty handling squalls over 20 Kn than our compedetors!.
I spoke with a rigger who suggested adding a removable inner forestay. The sail he suggests would have a built in Dyneema Stay. and have continuous line furling. It would attach to a fixing point a foot or so inside the existing Genoa forestay . He suggested a double purchase pulley on the halyard so it can more easily be tensioned. We would have to add reinforcing frames in the anchor locker. Its a 7/8 rig and the new halyard would enter the mast just below the existing Genoa halyard.
Just wondering has anyone experience adding a n inner forestay to a similar boat?
Willl it make to boat more managable to windward?
'I like the Inner forestay idea as the sail is more easily set than having to drop the genoa and run up a replacement smaller jib. We generally sail , two on board. Obviously the set up will be expensive relative to just buying a smaller jib,
I think that the inner jib should be a 100% jib but i'm not sure about this. Has anyone any ideas on how best to size it?
Could I set both the existing Genoa and the removable Jib as a stay sail on a reach and should I expect much extra drive from this?
I.m thinking of being able to use the genoa , wing on wing with the new Jib going downwind. I might have to add a whisker pole . Does this work?

Interested in your thoughts,

Kinsale 373

 

[ashtead]

We don’t have a retro fit second headsail but we’re design fron new with two selden furler and the inner headsail is on a self tacker . The down side is to go about when using larger headsail it has to be furled in to go through slot. Your sailmaker has suggested a continuous one like a Karver as used for a large downwind sail. We have never winged our headsails but tou can using the boom end plus a spi pool on a Track . You might look at utube vid by Ran sailing to see them doing this . If you sail in unclutterEd areas it will be fine but in crowded waters becomes too much hassle. You might add a self tacker track if you do this to simplify control of course. You also have tO ensure you can furl in sails as required with winches if needed.

 

[sailoppopotamus]

Since you're talking about racing, I just want to point out that as far as I know, and at least under the OCR rating system, you get a credit if you only have a single headsail and it is on a roller. I presume you would lose this with the setup you propose, which means that in light wind conditions you would become less competitive. There's no doubt however that if it's blowing 25 knots you'll be much better off with a smaller headsail than a rolled up #1.

For what it's worth I would love to have a removable inner forestay on my boat so that I can hoist a storm jib if I have to, I'm just not sure how to tackle the reinforcement of the deck for the tack attachment point and have postponed the project for now

 

[fredrussell]

I’ve just added a removable inner forestay to compliment my mahoosive 150% genoa. I use a (approx) 80% hank on ‘blade’ jib with it. Adding a furler would be too much complication for me, especially when it’s really quick and easy to hank on and hoist this tiny sail, including single handed.

 

[Neeves]

I've a Bene 373 with In an Mast Furling main ( 25M Sq ) and a 140 % Genoa ( 36MSq. ) Mostly we Cruse but do some white sail club racing -were not very compedetive!
The boat is comfortable up to 15Kn. I geneally start to role the genoa in anything over 17 Kn, to reduce healing. Once we hit 20 Kn I have a few roles in the Genoa when going to windward. I notice when Club racing, that we quickly lose pointing abiliy once we have a few roles in the Genoa- relative to boats with smaller jibs. We seem to have a lot more difficulty handling squalls over 20 Kn than our compedetors!.
I spoke with a rigger who suggested adding a removable inner forestay. The sail he suggests would have a built in Dyneema Stay. and have continuous line furling. It would attach to a fixing point a foot or so inside the existing Genoa forestay . He suggested a double purchase pulley on the halyard so it can more easily be tensioned. We would have to add reinforcing frames in the anchor locker. Its a 7/8 rig and the new halyard would enter the mast just below the existing Genoa halyard.
Just wondering has anyone experience adding a n inner forestay to a similar boat?
Willl it make to boat more managable to windward?
'I like the Inner forestay idea as the sail is more easily set than having to drop the genoa and run up a replacement smaller jib. We generally sail , two on board. Obviously the set up will be expensive relative to just buying a smaller jib,
I think that the inner jib should be a 100% jib but i'm not sure about this. Has anyone any ideas on how best to size it?
Could I set both the existing Genoa and the removable Jib as a stay sail on a reach and should I expect much extra drive from this?
I.m thinking of being able to use the genoa , wing on wing with the new Jib going downwind. I might have to add a whisker pole . Does this work?

Interested in your thoughts,

Kinsale 373

Your problem is that a part furled Genoa loses its shape, increasingly, as you furl. Your competition are using smaller sails that they can set perfectly (well maybe not perfectly but much better than your part furled Jenny). I'd suggest race with a 100% jib and have your rating reflect the smaller sail. If you use it only when you race it will extend the life of the sail and it will keep its shape. You can then use the genny for cruising - when you will not be worrying so much about speed.

You will obviously need to swap sails - the alternative is a more expensive Jenny or watch the competition beating you, hands down.

We used to race, but only to win , all the head sails were hanked on - no reefing - choose the sail before the race started and for long races (RORC)) change sails

As an aside - we now cruise and use a furling 150% Jenny. We listen to forecasts religiously and if we think we will need to furl the Jenny we remove it completely and instal a 100% jib - as our Jenny is a bit of a waste of time part furled. We sail a cat, whose pointing ability is poor - but awful with our furled Jenny - off the wind - different story.

We too have an inner forestay, hanked on No 4 or storm jib, which is attached to the same reinforcing, slightly extended, as the furler. No need to add dedicated reinforcing.

Jonathan

 

[dunedin]

Do you have a foam luff on your furling genoa? If not, I would start with a decent sail with foam luff, which massively improves set when part reefed.
To be honest, you are on a hiding to nothing trying to race a boat with a roller furling main. The absence of a Cunningham control, battens and ability to use heavy backstay means the sail will be inefficient in light winds - and grossly so in strong winds beating.
Since I started observing this, we are now over 12 years - and c.20,000nm - and we have yet to be overtaken upwind by a single boat with a furling mainsail, of any length. A couple of bigger boats with grey laminate sails with vertical battens took some challenge to stay ahead of, but even they couldn’t go to windward faster - but stormed off when we both bore off round a headland, using their longer length.

So perhaps get a decent furling genoa and accept that racing is just for leisure not competition.

 

[Kinsale373]

Thanks to everyone for their feedback. Lots of food for thought and some good points made.
Yep, we definately fit into the "race for leasure" catagory. and with our in mast reefed main , really go racing to increase the white sail fleet numbers and make the rest of them feel good ! We have some ok results under handicap in 15Kn of steady wind ! Were enjoying it so we will continue.
I do have a foam luff on the current Genoa ok and its in reasonable condition according to my sailmaker.
From the feed back I'm now leaning towards buying a smaller 100% jib for the existing forestay and put up with the effort of having to drop the Genoa. I might even be able to borrow a Genoa to try out the idea before parting with cash.

Thanks again to all for the feedback

Kinsale 373