Access to Marinas during Covid 19 restrictions

[penberth3]

His instruction has as much authority as a fart in a thunderstorm , if he instructed you to Jump of a bridge would you do it , I instruct you all to vote Tory next election
There is no law its a shambles bit of legislation that got pushed through and has more holes in it than Swiss cheese ,....

There is no law, but there is and it's a shambles... Eh???

 

[Caladh]

Further to this thread, non of us wish to make this any more personal than it is or has become - we appear to be quite British about it. Both IP485 and Fly Goose are I believe, from a legal background and base their arguments on strict law as it may pertain were someone to be taken to court for disobeying “the law” whatever that might be. It does appear nit picking and their arguments do not help in promulgating the stay at home “instruction”. I’m outta here as I can’t see this post going anywhere fast.
Stay safe and sensible.

 

[sailaboutvic]

BTW, what happens to liveaboards, calling the boat their only home?

We obey the rules of the country's we in , although there still some who think the rule don't apply to them like the two skippers in Greece who been arrested, the skipper in Portugal who decided after being left alone to anchor then moved and has now been told he as to leave the country fun and games he going to have , the boat who left Sicily for another Italian island that arrived and was refuse entry plus a few more , bloody idiots in my books ,
We all been ask to stay put and stay put we should , what ever our option are,

 

[nortada]

Back to thread

For those interested, there is an allied thread (without all of the agro) in Liveaboard Link at:- Discounts for berthing during lockdown?

 

[GTom]

We obey the rules of the country's we in , although there still some who think the rule don't apply to them like the two skippers in Greece who been arrested, the skipper in Portugal who decided after being left alone to anchor then moved and has now been told he as to leave the country fun and games he going to have , the boat who left Sicily for another Italian island that arrived and was refuse entry plus a few more , bloody idiots in my books ,
We all been ask to stay put and stay put we should , what ever our option are,

I mean liveaboards around the UK. Where do they go if their marina is in lockdown?

 

[sailaboutvic]

I mean liveaboards around the UK. Where do they go if their marina is in lockdown?

Ok Tom I get what you mean now , I did read that a few marinas are still partly open to people living on board .
I guess one problem could be in the UK is the fact that some liveaboard are doing it under the radar .

 

[xyachtdave]

A marina local to me closed the pontoons, locked the facilities block and asked the live aboard community to leave. Like most it's forbidden to live aboard under the t&c's but a blind eye turned if you're not a PITA. I did it for 6 months, kept my head down and didn't bother anyone.

Surprisingly I didn't notice any of them leave, so assume they are now renting/with friends etc, a real problem for them at short notice.

 

[Trident]

Many marinas have liveaboards who pay council tax there - many others have people not "legally" there but completely accepted and even with live aboard rates for things like red diesel for heating.

I'm stuck living aboard in one such marina - we live aboard full time cruising but came back to the south coast of the UK to have new engines fitted and have now been stuck here. The marina is closed but the dozen or so live aboards have been treated wonderfully by the marina - they came and checked everyone had plenty of electricity before shutting up, they left the laundry room open for free so no one would need to worry about tokens etc There are around a dozen people here, some always are, some are against their will as it were but none of us are going out sailing. Meanwhile despite the lock down I see people turning up every day to check or work on boats, touching every surface as they go in and out, having no regard for the essential journey rules. (Like the bloke who has been here 3 days this week anti fouling but makes his wife stand by the boat with their dog so they can pretend they are walking it if anyone asks! )

One woman turned up the other evening asking round boats if anyone had a tender as her husband had gone out for a sail from his mooring and not tied on his tender properly so was marooned on his return. So she came round introducing one new vector to the equation of infection, then the local fisherman had to rescue him and later his dingy, two new vectors now and the man came by the next day to collect his dinghy saying he wanted another sail that afternoon. F***wit .

There are several boat yard businesses on site who have carried on working but only on existing jobs - no new entry by the public. They are all self employed so can't really afford not to. One is working on a large boat in the yard on a very long project and is out in the open as it were rather than in a shed. If harsher measures are brought in he will lose his only income, probably have to fight to get paid up to date so be out of pocket (turns out that boat owners are really really bad at paying their bills according to all the trades on site here - normally the wealthiest clients are the worst payers which doesn't surprise me ) . The only excuse I can see for anyone visiting their boat right now is if before lockdown they forgot to turn off gas or switch on the battery charger to ensure bilge pumps will work etc. Actual safety reasons seem fair, other than that you are risking lives, breaking the law and just being an all round cock.

 

[doug748]

While not doubting that "stay at home" is good advice, I wonder on what basis the minister thinks he can give instructions. The Hungarian prime minister has been given the power to rule by decree; our politicians have not.

I thought the tone was poor, he is no doubt under great pressure but his speechwriters and policy people should know better.

Churchill would have left us proud to be involved, determined to do our bit and feeling uplifted at what has already been achieved by our efforts. You get people to do stuff by giving them the motivation to want to.

I guess there are not many Churchills in a regular bag of vegetables.


.

 

[ip485]

From the Times today - it is behind a paywall and for copyright reasons it would be wrong ot post in full, but well worth a read.

I know there are those that disagree - but it is a point of view by a highly respected journalist so please try and resist making some of the comments that have been made recently and lets resume a constructive discussion.

"There’s a growing danger that as the novelty of being holed up wears off and spring air quickens our appetite for fun and freedom, our fellow citizens, who are not stupid, will conclude that the rules don’t make sense. They’ll resent unsatisfactory explanations from inarticulate police constables. They’ll start making the best — which is unachievable — the enemy of the good, and the power of the viral idea of quarantine will turn angrily upon the feebler but necessary thing we’re trying to do. When an official ruling goes over the top (Milford Haven Port Authority yesterday banned waterfront householders from using their kayaks in case they need to be rescued!) they should know that they are not erring on the side of caution but sabotaging popular respect.

So ministers should be honest. Concede it’s way short of quarantine. Concede it’s confusing and messy and we’ll all frequently be getting things wrong. Explain that the analogy isn’t with a condom and a pinprick — one tiny breach and all is lost — but with planting a windbreak: the wind will still blow through but not so hard. We need a more forgiving metaphor than quarantine, or something will snap."

Of course, on a practical note, there is already a great deal more discussion about the exit (or, at the moment, the lack of). The need for an exit will steadily grow, because, without one, everything we are seeking to achieve will be lost in other ways. It has to come. It is of course a question of time, so for those staying in, you will be able to get back to a more normal life soon.

 

[steveeasy]

I mean liveaboards around the UK. Where do they go if their marina is in lockdown?

There has been some guidance on similar types of residence. People who stay in guest houses. people who stay in caravan parks. If those people are using the facility as there permanent residence they are allowed to stay. there was an example of a caravan park that was told to close. It asked its residents to move out. the council overturned this an allowed the residents to stay and the park owners had no say. I think the same applys to liveaboards. If a boat yard or marina has turned a blind eye up till now, then they would not be able to enforce a move now. Just an opinion though.

Steveeasy

 

[Lucy52]

Not all the Highway Code has the force of law, those part which are advisory, not law, may be use in court to establish liability.

Best of luck arguing that the advice nay instruction "stay at home" has no force when considering the reasonableness of your grounds for leaving home.

 

[FlyingGoose]

Not all the Highway Code has the force of law, those part which are advisory, not law, may be use in court to establish liability.

Best of luck arguing that the advice nay instruction "stay at home" has no force when considering the reasonableness of your grounds for leaving home.

How about exercise (not decreed any time limit and car is allowed as the police have no powers , or are they stop watching you )
How about going to the supermarket
How about going to get meds
How about a a carer
How about as your job if you cannot work form home
How about front line workers
come on people use thy brains

 

[shaunksb]

How about exercise (not decreed any time limit and car is allowed as the police have no powers , or are they stop watching you )
How about going to the supermarket
How about going to get meds
How about a a carer
How about as your job if you cannot work form home
How about front line workers
come on people use thy brains

It's all in the legislation as you've had pointed out to you before.

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020

If you want to read it...

_________________________________________

 

[Tamar]

I mean liveaboards around the UK. Where do they go if their marina is in lockdown?

I own a charter boat. I have laid it up for the duration. The marina is in lockdown although trawlers can still operate. There is a big sign saying 'stay out, our staff have it covered'
On my daily walk takes me passed the marina, I can see my boat is fine from a distance, I can also see people cleaning Their boats and doing maintenance...... what part of stay away don't they understand? It really isn't that difficult.
No official livaboards here.

 

[ip485]

Please lets stop obsessing about the law - most of us are not lawyers, and most have very little idea how to interpret the law.

The Act says; "(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need— " so note that the list is NOT exhaustive or prescriptive, and ultimately it would be a matter for the Court to determine what is a "reasonable excuse". Rightly the legislation has been drafted in very wide terms and the chances of a conviction or a fine being up held before any senior Court are extremelly remote. The recent example of the lady who was arrested, draged to Court, fined, and has now had her "conviction" set aside - as some of us knew would have to happen.

THAT is the point. The idea is we must all self distance (or whatever the popular term we chose maybe). IT is very clear. How we go about that is a matter of understanding and applying the basic concept. Unfortunately the Government seems to be stuck between expecting us each to display a modicum of intelligence - and not.

It is unfortunate that if you take the excercise part literally (which far too many people are) you do not achieve ANY of the objectives sort by the advice and / or the legislation - which is why there has been further clarrification. Rightly every case cannot be judged on a prescriptive set of rules either as the legislation is drawn or as the advice is given.

I would suggest that those who walk on a crowded seafront promenade have completely missed the point, and are placing themselves and others and the NHS at greater risk than a walk in the country side, but, both are at least doing their very best to honour the spirit of the legislation. As the article I referred to earlier suggests, what we dont need is vigilante and other organisations thinking they are epidemiologists or enforcers of the non existent law because they place themselves and everyone else at more risk than if they did nothing.

I gave the classic example which I personally observed both of the police lady constable leaning into a car window for at least 15 minutes, and repeatedly trying to get far to close to me. Both were unacceptable and is indicative of the problems we cause when we ignore the evidence before of us or dont think about what it is the Government is trying to achieve.

The message really is so simple - keep a safe distance between anyone you are not living with - how you achieve that is really up to you, and we have been given lots of advice. Follow the advice, use your brains and common sense, surely it isnt that difficult.

 

[ip485]

On my daily walk takes me passed the marina, I can see my boat is fine from a distance, I can also see people cleaning Their boats and doing maintenance...... what part of stay away don't they understand? It really isn't that difficult.

Which is something that has been said so many times!

Please, just tell me how they are not seperating from others even more so than the mass of poeple and joggers and cyclists all wandering along the sea front. Please tell me all those people who go to the corner shops and dont respect the distance between others are in some way "better". Is it just me, but if you are working under a boat, have you not self isolated as effectively as if you were gardening. Is anyone even really going to approach you with all that dust swirling around. Sorry to get upset, but have some of us completely lost our common sense or is this just a wind up?

If you want to stay away it good with me. Leave those who are self isolating under these boats to get on with something useful and safely stay out of your way while you are walking so the pavements are less crowded, there are fewer people on the promenade etc. I can bet you after a day under the boat there arent many who want to go out for a walk. Has it escaped you that most poeple doing this almost always drive to the boat - they dont walk and carry a bagful of tools with them. The car is one of the best places to be isolated - until the Polcie stop you and lean through the window.

I despair - this is indeed one of the worst threads in a long time - PaulR was correct - and I am guessing there are just a few wind up merchants involved with is rather a shame, because it is exactly your actions which could result in tougher measures - not that there is actually any indication this is likely at the moment - in fact the talk today is relaxing some of the "lock down" - but we shall have to see how people's behaviour goes. the one thing I am sure it wont be those under their boats that are the problem - and I speak with a background of being very familiar and current with the science.

 

[Tamar]

Which is something that has been said so many times!

Please, just tell me how they are not seperating from others even more so than the mass of poeple and joggers and cyclists all wandering along the sea front. Please tell me all those people who go to the corner shops and dont respect the distance between others are in some way "better". Is it just me, but if you are working under a boat, have you not self isolated as effectively as if you were gardening. Is anyone even really going to approach you with all that dust swirling around. Sorry to get upset, but have some of us completely lost our common sense or is this just a wind up?

If you want to stay away it good with me. Leave those who are self isolating under these boats to get on with something useful and safely stay out of your way while you are walking so the pavements are less crowded, there are fewer people on the promenade etc. I can bet you after a day under the boat there arent many who want to go out for a walk. Has it escaped you that most poeple doing this almosgt drive to the boat - they dont walk and carry a bagful of tools with them. The car is one of the best places to be isolated - until the Polcie stop you and lean through the window.

What about the marina staff who have to work there? The place is closed. Why should they be at risk? But I completely understand where you are coming from.

 

[FlyingGoose]

Britain is a small country the vast majority of people live in large towns and cities , they are allowed out , unfortunately they will be lots out at one time unless you stagger them Some people think ok Im off the the country , but others have the same idea, they are not stupid there not flaunting the rules , it is the land available ,
Those under a boat driving no contact with any one what is the issue , those walking in the middle of no were what the problem I Do not get it

 

[ip485]

What about the marina staff who have to work there? The place is closed. Why should they be at risk?

Forgive me, but why dont we grasp the concept of keeping your distance?

Why would the marina staff get anywhere near you? Do you usually engage with the marina staff? Where I am last time I went, they said fine, we are open, but the office isnt, and the marina staff will keep their distance from you.

"ALL" we are really being asked to do, is keep away from others - if you cant do that, then you shouldnt being doing whatever it is!

For one moment when it comes to the various things we thing we cant do, can I suggest, stop, think, analyse what risk you are causing yourselves, and anyone else, think are you more likely to maintain distance and not interact with anyone else?

As the article I referred said earlier, if you carry your canoe and spend most of the time on the water - could you better isolate? Ok, I know you might need to be rescued. Come on, you might need to be rescued when you fall over on the seafront, you might fall down the stairs at home, accidents happen, obvioulsy dont do anything that places you are risk.

And finally we will hear stories of people doing really stupid things - and there will be some. Have you heard of a good story? Have you heard that a few of these are a good thing to make people think? I am only suggesting, as I said earlier, on a forum of intelligent people we can do better.