penberth3
Well-Known Member
For the umpteenth time, it is now the law. I'm not going to quote chapter and verse, you can look it up yourself.
Access to Marinas during Covid 19 restrictions
- Thread starter Kinsale373
- Start date
For the umpteenth time, it is now the law. I'm not going to quote chapter and verse, you can look it up yourself.
FlyingGoose
Well-Known Member
Can you post the link in regards to the law of staying in not driving and time limit outside I post all my links but there is always something missing from those that tell me its the law ,
penberth3
Well-Known Member
No, you'll have to google it yourself. It's all there on the government net.
FlyingGoose
Well-Known Member
So thats a it does not exist then
ip485
Well-Known Member
Spoil sport he he!
Reminds me for some reason of Faulty Towers - look its all there - there and there.
Bru
Well-Known Member
He said, and once again i quote his exact words, "This is not advice, this is an instruction. Stay at home"
I am not making that up, i watched live as he said it at today's briefing and it has been repeated on TV news and in the media since
I suggest you check your facts before accusing people of making things up
FlyingGoose
Well-Known Member
His instruction has as much authority as a fart in a thunderstorm , if he instructed you to Jump of a bridge would you do it , I instruct you all to vote Tory next election
There is no law its a shambles bit of legislation that got pushed through and has more holes in it than Swiss cheese , the only reason we are doing the guidelines and certain laws is because the British people give a dam about looking after each other not an instruction from a man who keeps changing his mind , so from Thursday evening at Question time to today the government manged so pass emergency legislation through parliament which is not even sitting
Ian_Rob
Well-Known Member
I suggest ip45 that it is YOU that is ‘making things up’.
What the Secretary of State said was:
“This advice is not a request, it is an instruction. Stay at home, protect lives and then you will be doing your part”
Should you doubt this I suggest you review the BBC recording specifically 01:26.10.
What the Secretary of State said was:
“This advice is not a request, it is an instruction. Stay at home, protect lives and then you will be doing your part”
Should you doubt this I suggest you review the BBC recording specifically 01:26.10.
GTom
Well-Known Member
BTW, what happens to liveaboards, calling the boat their only home?
Bru
Well-Known Member
His instruction has as much authority as a fart in a thunderstorm , if he instructed you to Jump of a bridge would you do it , I instruct you all to vote Tory next election
There is no law its a shambles bit of legislation that got pushed through and has more holes in it than Swiss cheese , the only reason we are doing the guidelines and certain laws is because the British people give a dam about looking after each other not an instruction from a man who keeps changing his mind , so from Thursday evening at Question time to today the government manged so pass emergency legislation through parliament which is not even sitting
Gods above! You really are determined not to get the message at any cost!
The message could NOT be clearer ' STAY AT HOME unless you HAVE to go out
You can argue black is white and green is blue as much as you like, that is the message
Because it is inevitably nuanced and there are all sorts of circumstances which make explicit legislation difficult, the government has tried to appeal to common sense. Unfortunately, as this and other threads here and elsewhere demonstrate, common sense is not a universal trait
And once again you really need to check your facts
There IS a law
The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Business Closure) (England) Regulations 2020
which were made using the powers conferred by the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984
There was no need for new legislation to enact the existing regulations and indeed there is no need for it to go much further (The Coronavirus Act rushed through parliament deals with a whole raft of issues not covered by existing legislation)
ip485
Well-Known Member
Bru - we are indeed in strange territory - "You know the advice, this is not advice, this is an instruction." The adivce still remains in place which is NOT to stay at home, but to go out in the prescribed circumstances. Hancock has confirmed again today that you may go out in the car to take a walk (ideally no more than a 5 minutes drive). In fact the Goverment have repeated (now numerous times) that it is important to excercise.
For that reason, you are making it up because it is simply not what has been said today. You must take the whole - not one sentence. You have to take the context of the current advice on the HM Gov. web site which has not changed.
I agree the advice is totally confusing and, unless you follow closely, terribly unclear. However, it remains advice, whatever may or may not become law. The Government does not have the power under current legislation to extend the limitations of the Coronavirus Emergency Act. I accept that could change - but that is the current position.
The Governement may think it can issue an "instruction" - rightly or wrongly as matters stand, it cannot. If you were taken to Court, the charge would fail - it is that simple because it is not Law. That is our system. You, I, any of us may disagree, but there it is.
Understandably, the Government are doing all they can to stay on scrip and encourage (coherce) people to follow the advice - and with good weather over the weekend if they can persuade people to stay in, they will. Clearly they feel (perhaps rightly) that some people need it explained in the most simple and most basic terms.
Legally, I aslo accept we are in unchartered territory - however, rightly this is a delicate balance and I dont have the answers. What I would say as a biologist is that we need to keep our distance from others - it really is that simple. Do that and we are doing all we can. Any law that might be passed that goes further has no scientific basis, and is passed only because, people are not keeping their distance.
You then must address the issue of those key workers that we rely on to go out to enable us all to live safely at home. You also have to address people's mental health - which, as readily as some would dismiss, is a critical issue. Even taken literally, you would not go out to get vital meds. over the weekend if you took it at face value - which of course is one of the exemptions.
Fianlly, you must at all cost keep the people on side. We are already seeing in France that the lock down is failing. You govern with consent and I suspect that a total lock down or any length of more draconian measures will result in unrest, which is equally unhelpful.
There is an old saying with a twist - what you might wish for, may not achieve the results you hoped.
On top of all this Sweden is conducting a very interesting test case on "lockdowns" and is being watched very closely. The science is also in unchartered territory and the Government will be very cautious of measures that subsequently might be shown to have been poor. Sadly we are in the realms where so much of the advice may well be dubious. We have almost a complete reversal with regards wearing masks. The Goverment told us they were worthless and should not be worn. We were told testing is vital. The Government failed to organise testing when this was the WHO's mantra. We were told that airports are key centres fro spreading the virus. Heathrow continues to operate and there are no measures to control the flow of passengers through the terminals and on the aircraft. I dont make these points as political criticism - rather to illustrate why advice should remain just that - legally, otherwsie the Government may find itself in time to come in very dangerous territory indeed.
For that reason, you are making it up because it is simply not what has been said today. You must take the whole - not one sentence. You have to take the context of the current advice on the HM Gov. web site which has not changed.
I agree the advice is totally confusing and, unless you follow closely, terribly unclear. However, it remains advice, whatever may or may not become law. The Government does not have the power under current legislation to extend the limitations of the Coronavirus Emergency Act. I accept that could change - but that is the current position.
The Governement may think it can issue an "instruction" - rightly or wrongly as matters stand, it cannot. If you were taken to Court, the charge would fail - it is that simple because it is not Law. That is our system. You, I, any of us may disagree, but there it is.
Understandably, the Government are doing all they can to stay on scrip and encourage (coherce) people to follow the advice - and with good weather over the weekend if they can persuade people to stay in, they will. Clearly they feel (perhaps rightly) that some people need it explained in the most simple and most basic terms.
Legally, I aslo accept we are in unchartered territory - however, rightly this is a delicate balance and I dont have the answers. What I would say as a biologist is that we need to keep our distance from others - it really is that simple. Do that and we are doing all we can. Any law that might be passed that goes further has no scientific basis, and is passed only because, people are not keeping their distance.
You then must address the issue of those key workers that we rely on to go out to enable us all to live safely at home. You also have to address people's mental health - which, as readily as some would dismiss, is a critical issue. Even taken literally, you would not go out to get vital meds. over the weekend if you took it at face value - which of course is one of the exemptions.
Fianlly, you must at all cost keep the people on side. We are already seeing in France that the lock down is failing. You govern with consent and I suspect that a total lock down or any length of more draconian measures will result in unrest, which is equally unhelpful.
There is an old saying with a twist - what you might wish for, may not achieve the results you hoped.
On top of all this Sweden is conducting a very interesting test case on "lockdowns" and is being watched very closely. The science is also in unchartered territory and the Government will be very cautious of measures that subsequently might be shown to have been poor. Sadly we are in the realms where so much of the advice may well be dubious. We have almost a complete reversal with regards wearing masks. The Goverment told us they were worthless and should not be worn. We were told testing is vital. The Government failed to organise testing when this was the WHO's mantra. We were told that airports are key centres fro spreading the virus. Heathrow continues to operate and there are no measures to control the flow of passengers through the terminals and on the aircraft. I dont make these points as political criticism - rather to illustrate why advice should remain just that - legally, otherwsie the Government may find itself in time to come in very dangerous territory indeed.
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PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
This is one of the worst threads i have ever read on the whole of YBW.
Nearly 700 people died in the last 24 hours !
My wife works in the food industry, still working in the factory with 50 other people, so you lot can eat.
My sister works in the pet food industry, still working so you can feed your pets.
My eldest daughter works in the care system, still working, despite being in one of the high risk groups.
Countless others in the NHS, food industry etc etc are still working and literally risking their lives for others.
Some of the drivel posted in this, and other threads, by people whining because they can't go sailing, can't go for a drive, don't want to comply with the regulations, etc are a total disgrace.
Shame on you !
Nearly 700 people died in the last 24 hours !
My wife works in the food industry, still working in the factory with 50 other people, so you lot can eat.
My sister works in the pet food industry, still working so you can feed your pets.
My eldest daughter works in the care system, still working, despite being in one of the high risk groups.
Countless others in the NHS, food industry etc etc are still working and literally risking their lives for others.
Some of the drivel posted in this, and other threads, by people whining because they can't go sailing, can't go for a drive, don't want to comply with the regulations, etc are a total disgrace.
Shame on you !
ip485
Well-Known Member
PaulRainbow - a very forthright post.
Personally I think it is a very worthwhile debate and one of the best threads I have read. Obvioulsy you may disagree, as clearly you do, but I dont see anyone here recommending not maintaining social distancing. In fact quite the opposite. The discussion is about how we best achieve this and clearly it is exactly the juggle that the Government should achieve.
This will probably go on weeks. We need to stay calm with our debates, but keep our eyes alert to what is happening to achieve social distancing.
I dont think this is about who is right or wrong. I hope it is about a grown up discussion about where we are with the Law, where we are with what the Government want us to do, whether this is working to maintain social distancing and discussing the facts. That, I think is a worthwhile discussion, since done of us have certain answers.
Personally I think it is a very worthwhile debate and one of the best threads I have read. Obvioulsy you may disagree, as clearly you do, but I dont see anyone here recommending not maintaining social distancing. In fact quite the opposite. The discussion is about how we best achieve this and clearly it is exactly the juggle that the Government should achieve.
This will probably go on weeks. We need to stay calm with our debates, but keep our eyes alert to what is happening to achieve social distancing.
I dont think this is about who is right or wrong. I hope it is about a grown up discussion about where we are with the Law, where we are with what the Government want us to do, whether this is working to maintain social distancing and discussing the facts. That, I think is a worthwhile discussion, since done of us have certain answers.
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Ian_Rob
Well-Known Member
ip485
Well-Known Member
PaulRainbow - sorry to you as well, I am not really sure if your post was directed at me, or not. I see a collection of likes as to some of my posts and thank goodness no reports if I understand this part of the forum. So my apolgies if you are happy with the points I have been making and discussing. All the best.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
While not doubting that "stay at home" is good advice, I wonder on what basis the minister thinks he can give instructions. The Hungarian prime minister has been given the power to rule by decree; our politicians have not.
Bru
Well-Known Member
I know just where you're coming from Paul
My wife, son and daughter all work in supermarket distribution.
They are all working flat out to put the stuff you all need back on the shelves after the self entitled panic buying idiots looked after themselves
I've had to stop work to keep them working because they cannot get to work by public transport anymore
There are many thousands of people daily risking their own health in the NHS and emergency services and tens of thousands more going above and beyond to help get us through this unprecedented situation
The message is only unclear to those who wilfully do not want to "get it" or those who are too stupid to comprehend it
I have absolutely zero sympathy with the nit picking arguments on this, i entirely agree, disgraceful thread
The likelihood is that the discretion and flexibility in the current regulations and guidance is going to be removed in the very near future despite the undoubted negative consequences in the long term thanks to the attitudes (if not the actions) demonstrated hereabouts
My wife, son and daughter all work in supermarket distribution.
They are all working flat out to put the stuff you all need back on the shelves after the self entitled panic buying idiots looked after themselves
I've had to stop work to keep them working because they cannot get to work by public transport anymore
There are many thousands of people daily risking their own health in the NHS and emergency services and tens of thousands more going above and beyond to help get us through this unprecedented situation
The message is only unclear to those who wilfully do not want to "get it" or those who are too stupid to comprehend it
I have absolutely zero sympathy with the nit picking arguments on this, i entirely agree, disgraceful thread
The likelihood is that the discretion and flexibility in the current regulations and guidance is going to be removed in the very near future despite the undoubted negative consequences in the long term thanks to the attitudes (if not the actions) demonstrated hereabouts
ip485
Well-Known Member
I am inclined to feel if that is your view, then dont discuss or debate the matter any further as the discussion (and with great respect) is not for you. Your point is made and respected, but there isnt much point if any of us keep making the same point. I fully understand that you dont have any sympathy.
i dont really know if you disagree with the points I have made or not. Clearly your family is making a geat contribution. I expect there are many of us here making very significant contributions, but FWIW I am one of those very key workers and I am not going to say how much at the sharp end and my views are still as I have expressed. It is the way I feel and with equal passion.
Caladh
Well-Known Member
Judge, no I don’t want to let the idiots be idiots. If you choose to ignore the advice, however you interpret it, please dont‘t come anywhere near Portsmouth or its environs for your walk/exercise. Yes even round here you could find somewhere quiet, which might suit your own arguments.
penberth3
Well-Known Member
Simple - it's based on his own Government's Regulations and the Government guidance that goes with it.