Bouba
Well-Known Member
He’s buying a brand new boat, he won’t be allowed to fix anything
Absolute 52 Cruiser vs Trawler
- Thread starter ShaneAtSea
- Start date
ShaneAtSea
Well-Known Member
Very true......if i need to get a washing machine installed im gonna pay someone to do it.
But i dont think hitting a crab pot will be covered by the warranty
Portofino
Well-Known Member
You are qualifying yourself ( in my book ) in the none technically minded group .
Never said he will be fixing , just pointing out , happy to repeat a bit .....” first principles “ .......” marketing BS “
That makes the down time worse and inevitable misery more awaiting VP authorised techs to turn up in Hicksville armed with the lasted lap top updates and a sat phone to Sweden .
Lets take a log .
Hits the stern gear of a Hat 52 ......not a warranty thing any hillbilly spanner wielding uneducated American river boat guy can remove , re pitch , repair , replace in a a day or two .....back on his way .
Tap the same fwd facing duoprops on a IPS .
erh the gear shaft snaps , or kinks , the seal looses its integrity.
Mayonaise in the oil + its getting waaaay out a Hicksville river boys comfort zone , he can’t even spell his own name never mind work with high end VP software to recalibrate the pod after the gear set( s) are fitted .
Are you sure the new warranty will cover a log strike ? .....his insurance maybe ...but weeks will pass as VP and underwriters play tennis with the expenditure.
ShaneAtSea
Well-Known Member
You are qualifying yourself ( in my book ) in the none technically minded group .
Never said he will be fixing , just pointing out , happy to repeat a bit .....” first principles “ .......” marketing BS “
That makes the down time worse and inevitable misery more awaiting VP authorised techs to turn up in Hicksville armed with the lasted lap top updates and a sat phone to Sweden .
Lets take a log .
Hits the stern gear of a Hat 52 ......not a warranty thing any hillbilly spanner wielding uneducated American river boat guy can remove , re pitch , repair , replace in a a day or two .....back on his way .
Tap the same fwd facing duoprops on a IPS .
erh the gear shaft snaps , or kinks , the seal looses its integrity.
Mayonaise in the oil + its getting waaaay out a Hicksville river boys comfort zone , he can’t even spell his own name never mind work with high end VP software to recalibrate the pod after the gear set( s) are fitted .
Are you sure the new warranty will cover a log strike ? .....his insurance maybe ...but weeks will pass as VP and underwriters play tennis with the expenditure.
Im not thinking about anything like that..........that would take the fun out of it
I wouldnt buy a new car and think about hitting a pot hole all the time.
If sh*t hits the fan then i'll worry about it then. I'll have a BoatUS membership so i can be towed to the nearest boatyard if i need to
Bouba
Well-Known Member
I’ve just spent three days upside down in my lazaret fixing the passerelle. And I’ve got a dent in my forehead from where I dropped the spanner to prove it????You are qualifying yourself ( in my book ) in the none technically minded group .
Portofino
Well-Known Member
A wholly preventable situation in the first place which proves my point .
The longer you delay pics of your choice of location against OEMs ... the lower your “tech “ credibility rating .
.Doesn't the basic surface area of clutch packs in relation to the mass it’s ask to move NOW mean anything to you ?
Accept it’s not something that springs to mind at boat shows for most folks .
Buts it the limiting engineering factor with drives .....wether conventional or IPS .
cone clutch and boat with a perfect match of friction area + mass = success .
The late Robert Braithwaite with his first boat.
Looks where the surface area the size of a gnats scrutum cone clutch is being applied 50 years later .
Lazzara 95 LSY Sport Yacht
Triple 1360 or eq moving a 95 ftr .......madness tackle that ! But no shortage of fools willing to give it go .
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Bouba
Well-Known Member
And you shall have photos, soon! I just installed a part this morning. Tomorrow I will begin the design of my final parts.A wholly preventable situation in the first place which proves my point .
The longer you delay pics of your choice of location against OEMs ... the lower your “tech “ credibility rating .
Doesn't the basic surface area of clutch packs in relation to the mass it’s ask to move NOW mean anything to you ?
Accept it’s not something that springs to mind at boat shows for most folks .
Buts it the limiting engineering factor with drives .....wether conventional or IPS .
The challenge is to buy a new fifty footer without IPS. The boat shows are almost exclusively IPS
Don’t get me wrong I am no fan of Volvo, and the more I drive my car and the more I have to do with my local Volvo dealer the less impressed I become!
TwoHooter
Well-Known Member
Speaking as a Nordhavn owner I agree, and so does a big chunk of the market. A few years ago there was someone on here who said he'd been on board an N at Southampton boat show and was so disappointed with the interior that his dream of buying one had evaporated. Many of the new boats are being built with totally different interiors, much less "teak" (a lot of which is actually varnished plywood) and much lighter and brighter internal colours. Many buyers are hiring interior designers instead of using Nordhavn's standard internal décor. But the waiting list + build time for a new N is several years and the used boats are what they are. And here we are in the realms of marketing again. Most N owners don't care about the décor because our reasons for buying the boats are that they are solid, safe, proper little ships, with better than average access for maintenance, they hold their value extremely well, and they suit our cruising plans which mostly don't involve trans-oceanic passages but always take us out of coastal waters. The Navetta market is different. I'm guessing most Navetta owners never go far from their marina, and would never fix their own passarelles. They wouldn't think of cruising the ICW or the Caribbean. Shane, I think you are an unusual customer. You are fairly new to this game, so you haven't yet been properly scared by what the sea can do to you, so safety isn't your top priority. And you haven't gone through maintenance hell yet. You are still at the stage where the styling and décor and fancy electronic control systems mean more to you than the engineering. All that is completely normal. Up to that point you are a typical wealthy European boat buyer. But what you want to do with your boat is quite ambitious - completely practical but ambitious nonetheless - and not at all typical of wealthy European boat buyers. Finding the right boat to tick all your boxes is not easy. I really don't see you as a potential customer for one of these which is perfectly suited to the ICW including the hazardous bits
2021 American Tug 485 Express Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld
ShaneAtSea
Well-Known Member
Speaking as a Nordhavn owner I agree, and so does a big chunk of the market. A few years ago there was someone on here who said he'd been on board an N at Southampton boat show and was so disappointed with the interior that his dream of buying one had evaporated. Many of the new boats are being built with totally different interiors, much less "teak" (a lot of which is actually varnished plywood) and much lighter and brighter internal colours. Many buyers are hiring interior designers instead of using Nordhavn's standard internal décor. But the waiting list + build time for a new N is several years and the used boats are what they are. And here we are in the realms of marketing again. Most N owners don't care about the décor because our reasons for buying the boats are that they are solid, safe, proper little ships, with better than average access for maintenance, they hold their value extremely well, and they suit our cruising plans which mostly don't involve trans-oceanic passages but always take us out of coastal waters. The Navetta market is different. I'm guessing most Navetta owners never go far from their marina, and would never fix their own passarelles. They wouldn't think of cruising the ICW or the Caribbean. Shane, I think you are an unusual customer. You are fairly new to this game, so you haven't yet been properly scared by what the sea can do to you, so safety isn't your top priority. And you haven't gone through maintenance hell yet. You are still at the stage where the styling and décor and fancy electronic control systems mean more to you than the engineering. All that is completely normal. Up to that point you are a typical wealthy European boat buyer. But what you want to do with your boat is quite ambitious - completely practical but ambitious nonetheless - and not at all typical of wealthy European boat buyers. Finding the right boat to tick all your boxes is not easy. I really don't see you as a potential customer for one of these which is perfectly suited to the ICW including the hazardous bits
2021 American Tug 485 Express Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld
I really like the Nordhavn layouts but i really hate the old fashioned wood choices......however the new N68 interior looks incredible. I really fancy one of those
See below...
TwoHooter
Well-Known Member
A friend of mine has one of those in build at the moment.
But the colour of the bedspreads is quite attractive. I expect that will be enough to sell the boat.
Seriously, I knew a chap who wanted a boat but his wife was against the idea. Eventually he persuaded her to come to the Southampton boat show and she saw one she liked and they bought it. When asked why she chose that particular boat she said she like the colour of the upholstery more than the others.
True story.
Edit: Portofino, I think the word you wanted to use is scrotum. As a medical man you should know that.
(I wonder if this thread will now be obliterated by the moderation software)
TwoHooter
Well-Known Member
As a change from IPS and décor discussions, here's another question. Have you decided where to register (flag) the boat and pay the tax?
ShaneAtSea
Well-Known Member
ssduca
New Member
Hi All just sailed a brand new Absolute 52Fly from Varazze, North of Italy near Genova to Malta -a distance of around 780 miles. Boat is very well and solidly built with no squeaks at all. She is equipped with the D8-IPS700 engines. Cruising at 27knots with top speed at 32knots. Consumption is pretty good too, at 27knots around 7 liters per mile. As expected on such a trip, we had varied weather conditions but she was always comfortable and in control. She is an amazing cruiser. Highly recommended.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Your post offers an interesting opportunity for a cross check on the claims about IPS being a magic wand for reducing fuel burn.
Here are some numbers related to my pretty traditional 56 footer on shafts, designed 20+ years ago, vs. the much more modern Absolute:
a) my boat is 1 meter longer, half a meter wider, 6 tons heavier;
b) she has 500 more HPs overall, from old school mechanical engines whose displacement and weight is almost twice vs. the D8;
c) performances are practically identical, with up to 27 kts cruise speed for both and 33 vs. 32 kts top speed.
Yet, fuel burn in my boat is 7.7 lpm vs 7 of the IPS powered Absolute, at the same speed.
A 10% delta which is clearly more than justified by the differences in size and weight alone, without even start to consider the much larger powerplant.
Bottom line, far from denying that at Abs boats are elegant and decently built, but "pretty good" consumption? I don't think so.
It's not the first time that claims of fuel savings with IPS turn out to be 100% marketing BS, btw.
Bouba
Well-Known Member
Volvo numbered their IPS not on its actual HP but what (they claimed) an equivalent shaft drive engine size would be if it were as efficient as IPS. I don’t know if this was ever true but there has to be some kind of efficacy due to the forward facing propellers. They can’t have lost that because of some design flaw
longjohnsilver
Well-Known Member
Based on those figures, Charleston seems a no brainier. And a lovely place too.
ShaneAtSea
Well-Known Member
I know.....even in Florida the maximum you pay is $18,000
However, i need to look into import taxes and delivery fees which i assume the dealer will add onto the price.
The Navetta 52 will cost $1.5m which is £1.1m in Palm Beach............ a Nevetta 52 in the UK/EU would be £1.5m INC tax
So it looks like a better option to buy in the USA.....i'll get confirmation once i assign an independent broker
MapisM
Well-Known Member
I know, J. In fact, I never consider the VP "name", which is yet another example of marketing BS.
In my previous comparison, when I mentioned the 500hp overall difference, I was referring to true outputs:
2x550=1100 in the so-called "IPS 700" Abs 52;
2x800=1600 in my MAN powered boat.
Theoretically, the efficiency claim is based not only on the fwd facing props, but also on the fact that thrust with pods is parallel to the keel, while shafts (surface drives aside) are inevitably oriented downward.
Trouble is, there are technical constraints when designing a hull for IPS installation, as opposed to a hull designed to be efficient "per se", so to speak.
In turn, this makes IPS-designed hulls also "harder" upon wave impact, AOTBE.
But that's not so relevant for fuel burn, of course.
Bouba
Well-Known Member
This part is interesting. I assume you are saying that pods don’t work as well on an uber efficient planing hull. Since the Navetta is not a full planing hull (although not quite a cruise ship hull) perhaps it’s more suited to pods than, say, a Absolute 52 fly
TwoHooter
Well-Known Member
Shane - have you got equivalent data for the Navetta (which is what I think you said you were looking at)?