A question of seamanship!

[DERF]

Ok I've been stuck here in Mallorca waiting for the weather to break in order to take the boat from here to Port Leucate.

The weekend forecast was for pretty bad weather, however being located on the south of the island have been spared most of the nastiness..Went out for a sortie on Sunday in a "gusta" 80 and sure enough it was 6/7 on the nose as we rounded Dragonera... not nice..apparently a full gale blowing in gulf of lion.

So all day yesterday and today sitting around relaxing..

The forecast for the next few days on theyr.net(thanx Matt) is much better with the wind dropping and veering NNE - W. f 3/4.

So do I take a chance and make a run for it tomorrow night (262miles) or do I wise up and wait till next week, miss the transport in France and spend another few hundred reorganising the whole trip?



<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>If it doesn't kill ... it fattens</font color=red>

 

[Solitaire]

How on earth do you expect anybody to answer you with any reliability? Apart from the fact we know you have a Targa 52, which I presume is the transportation in which you intend to make this journey, we know nothing of your experience! Although the fact that you are asking the question should give an indication /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif! Very simple rule really - if you are in doubt, don't!

<hr width=100% size=1>Boating is <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.powerboattraininguk.co.uk>Serious Fun</A>

 

[Its_Only_Money]

"So do I take a chance and make a run for it tomorrow night (262miles) or do I wise up and wait till next week, miss the transport in France and spend another few hundred reorganising the whole trip?"

You should definitely do one or the other but final decision is the skipper's, as always....

<hr width=100% size=1>Rgds

Simon
Its Only Money
Fairline Sprint
Solent-based

 

[hagrid]

L,

Your post asks some questions of yourself, and I guess you have questions of your new toy, as you may not not all her ways yet. My advise is go if you as skipper feel safe and have a get out plan, do you have crew? or are you going alone? if crew you have to be sure for them. Otherwise for the sake of as you say a few hundred it may not be worth it....... Your new toy will still be there in a few weeks,

Andy

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[Tony7]

Why do it at night? I did the reverse run a few months ago and I know its a big trip ( I had a whole 2 hours solo after my day skip ticket ) common sense, check the weather, and if you want extra comfort ring around the coastal ports for forecasts, if it looks good set off at first light and max 10 hrs will do it, your never more than 50 mls off shore and you can allways divert, good luck and enjoy.
Keep an eye out for whales we saw lots.

<hr width=100% size=1>The Devil makes work for idle hands!!!!

 

[capsco]

Go to Barcelona first , then sneak round the corner next day, near enough same distance Golfe de Lyon is a bad place in poor weather.

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

This is a long trip at this time of year and its going to be a lot longer still if you get any kind of weather on the nose so you should be wary of any forecast with North in it especially more than a F3. I would be happier with some kind of Southerly wind forecast. In addition, if there has been a period of high winds it will take a day for the sea state to subside
On the other hand, I dont have any charts but I think you have the security of closing the Spanish coast after 150miles or so which would allow you to bail out to another port if the going got rough
Like the others, I dont understand why you are doing this trip at night and in one hit. Why cant you do it 2 comfortable day trips?
Where are you by the way? My boat is in Club de Mar at the moment.

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[DERF]

Ok,

I asked the question to get advice from anyone who may have done this trip before. I haven't.

Intention was to leave in the early hours in order to arrive in daylight. Only reason for now attempting to do it in one hop is that it can be done and I will catch up the couple of lost days...

I'm not sure a f3/4 even on the nose would be too uncomfortable and there is always a chance of aborting or going to Barcelona.

I've been boating for many years and still learn something new every year. I'm not afraid to ask for comment/guidance or advice..

thanx for you help.



<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>If it doesn't kill ... it fattens</font color=red>

 

[jfm]

Gulf Lyon not a walk in the park

Eek I kind of agree with the others. Barcelona first would be good. 262 in one hit is a big trip. you might need a strong stomach if there are any waves on the nose and you have to faff in the engine room for 30mins say- do you have people redundancy or are you the only skipper?. If the wind gets F5 with any north in it fuel range could fall substantially. you need to be very sure about the forecast, take no chances in Gulf of Lion, it is a very big and rough piece of sea

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[DERF]

Re: Gulf Lyon not a walk in the park

The max range (estimated) @ 25knts 330mls.. I guess with a 20% reserve that gives me just about 260mls... without carrying extra fuel. Done that before and its a real pain!

Four of us on board. Self, engineer, and two others. All have experience. From the sounds of things and weather permitting we should do the Barcelona hop and stay over. The engine monitors I hope will earn their keep!

This is just the kind of info I was hoping to get from you foumites!..

We live and learn..



<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>If it doesn't kill ... it fattens</font color=red>

 

[Solitaire]

Perhaps if you had worded your question differently! It appeared to me you were asking people to make a judgement call on your behalf. Your profile contains no real information as to your expereince apart from the fact you have a big Targa. More information at the start may have been usefull. Anyway you appear to have finally got the information you were looking for, have a good trip.

<hr width=100% size=1>Boating is <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.powerboattraininguk.co.uk>Serious Fun</A>

 

[tcm]

Re: tues or weds?

hi. They weather seems to turn fully in your favour tomorow Wednesday with light winds from the west. I wd go v early then. I wd close the coast straight to Barcelona- the weather has been smoother there, and it gives you more options. In fact, i wd def refuel there.

You could go and have a look today - but praps go out NW for a softer ride for 60ish miles to close the coast - you really want to refuel at barca, so then sneak back up the coast NE to barca.

It might be an idea to right around the outside of dragonera in the dark, after a storm - could be all sorts of junk in the gap, not sure.

I think i wd be tempted to go v early wednesday rather than late tues, but i recognise time pressures. The wind in full golfe is 45 knots till weds, but inshore it is varable and light - according to the charts. try meteo-france.

 

[tcm]

Re: more info

this is tuesdays forecast - an extra forecast put out cos of the wind. That's a sort-of bad sign really, like doctors turning uop to visit old people in the morning and inthe afternoon as well...

It's a bit hellish. In all honesty, i wouldn't have flown out. From cap bear, the wind is still 30 knots. Fine weather - just loads of wind. The strong wind warning lasts til wednesday morning - but i don't have the baleares forecast - altho of course you just need a "nowcast".

Here's an idea - praps call someone in barcelona? If anyone has ccscott's mobby, that wd be okay .

If you do go, you absolutely must close the spansih coast first, and stay very close inshore as you track NE up costa brava. If the swell is too much inshore - turn back to barcelona/blanes cos it won't get any better. From the spanish coast north, on wednesday afternoon it drops to 3/4. But the swell would be the killer, not the wind so much.

Note that waiting "a bit" doesn't help - strong wind is back on friday, not clearing till next week, dammit. I think you could easily do a few hundred quids boat damage, and/or would easily pay £500 quid to be "somewhere else". So, it'd be brave to go - even braver to go another time.

-PREVISIONS ELABOREES PAR METEO-FRANCE AIX-EN-PROVENCE
-COUVRANT LA ZONE DES 20 MN
-VITESSE DU VENT EN FORCE BEAUFORT

T,DE CERBERE A PORT CAMARGUE
T,ELABORE LE MARDI 16 NOVEMBRE 2004 A 6H30

T,1-AVIS DE COUP DE VENT NUMERO 391 SUR ROUSSILLON, SUD-LANGUEDOC,
OUEST PROVENCE
FIN DE VALIDITE : MERCREDI 17 NOVEMBRE 2004 A 0300 UTC.

T,2-SITUATION GENERALE LE MARDI 16
T,NOVEMBRE A 00H00 UTC ET EVOLUTION

ANTICYCLONE 1031 SUR LE MASSIF CENTRAL, ET ALPES DU NORD,
DEPRESSION 1015 HPA S'EVACUANT VERS LA MER ADRIATIQUE, FORT
REGIME DE NORD-OUEST SUR GOLFE DU LION

T,3-JOURNEE DU MARDI 16 NOVEMBRE
T,ET NUIT SUIVANTE

TEMPS : CIEL DEGAGE.
VISIBILITE : BONNE.
VENT:
- DE CERBERE AU CAP D'AGDE: NORD-OUEST 7 , TEMPORAIREMENT 8 ENTRE
LEUCATE ET BEAR CE MATIN , MOLLISSANT 6 A 7 LA NUIT.
-DU CAP D'AGDE A PORT CAMARGUE: NORD-OUEST 5 A 6, 3/4 DANS LA
GOLFE D'AIGUES-MORTES.
MER: AGITEE , LOCALEMENT FORTE SUR ROUSSILLON.
HOULE: CONFONDUE A LA MER DU VENT.

T,4-EVOLUTION POUR MERCREDI 17 NOVEMBRE

ENSOLEILLE.
- AU SUD DE LEUCATE, VENT DE NORD-OUEST 5 A 6 MOLLISSANT 3/4
L'APRES-MIDI
-AU NORD DE LEUCATE, NORD-OUEST 3/4, MOLLISSANT 1 A 3 L'APRES-MIDI.

T,5-A 4 HL ON OBSERVAIT:
VENT MER PMER VISI
NOEUDS HPA MN

SETE WNW 9 1024 >15
CAP BEAR NW 30 1023 >15
LEUCATE NW 30 1024 10

F,
6-PHENOMENES IMPORTANTS DU
JEUDI 18 NOVEMBRE AU VENDREDI 19 NOVEMBRE

FORT NORD-OUEST VENDREDI - i.e bollx, it doesn't get very much better for a while...

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[DERF]

Re: more info

Thanx Matt..very useful

I'm going to wait until Wed morning before I make a final decision. If I feel its still too lumpy and too much of a rush (need to get the boat there by Thursday pm latest) I'll leave it till next week.

You've been a great help thanx again!



<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>If it doesn't kill ... it fattens</font color=red>

 

[tcm]

Re:better news - try for Barc\'a today?

Below is the the forecast for today for the "large" - the sea area baleares esentially from majorca n to barcelona and sea area to west of that. And it's not too bad. agitee to peu agitee from NW.

Seeing this, and especially since it's worst at drogonaera, i'd go and have a look today. As before, head NW for spanish coast, then come round as the swell subsides. There little or no swell at barcelona, and of course flights back to uk.

Swellwise, waiting till thursday is a bit iffy - cos then its gotta be good enough to blam along and io don't think it will be good enough to do more that 20 knots the whole way any time this week. You should deffo plan to get inshore, making a longer trip, but comfier imho.

Bulletin émis le mardi 16 novembre 2004 à 04h54


1/ Situation générale le mardi 16 novembre 2004 à 00h UTC et évolution:
Anticyclone 1035 hPa au large de la Bretagne, quasi-stationnaire. Dépression orageuse 1010 hPa sur LIPARI, se décalant rapidement vers l'est en se comblant.

2/ Prévisions par zones valables jusqu'au mercredi 17 novembre à 06h UTC:


BALEARES
Variable 2 à 4, de Sud-Ouest dominant au sud, mais Nord-Ouest dans l'axe de l'Ebre. Mer peu agitée à agitée. <<< DERF: this is the good bit, imho. No harm going to have a look off dragonera, and if you can head NW comfortably, the sea gets better and better from there.




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[hlb]

Re: more info

(need to get the boat there by Thursday pm latest)
Famous last words../forums/images/icons/frown.gif

<hr width=100% size=1> Flags Solly MFBR</font color=red>
Haydn

 

[jfm]

Re: Gulf Lyon not a walk in the park

Then you def need to refuel barcelona. Dirty bottom and other factors could cut your range by 20%, so it's too tight imho

One practical tip however. Fairlines dont actually run out of fuel till the guage is hard on the empty stop + 15mins

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[mjf]

Re: Gulf Lyon not a walk in the park

Yep, I agree too!

With a strong wind in the wrong place and with the resultant swell I would made for early landfall and give myself some serious options vis a vis fuel / port of refuge etc. The 20% margin will soon disappear if you are not careful.

Maybe get the road transport to meet you somewhere between??? (in spain) - if not, and the lorry is ex Uk, can they not ferry it over to the island and collect the targa from where you are holed up now near palma. Just a thought!

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[Peppermint]

Re:Letting my ignorance show for a minute.

This is a very big boat. 260 odd miles isn't much more than a day sail for a thing like this is it? That must mean that you can slot into a tighter weather window than a sailboat. So your worries must revolve around sea state and fuel reserve. I think the poert entry by night is not so much of a worry as i'm assuming you have plenty of bells and whistles in the nav area.

What sort of average speed would you be looking to make? How does the swell effect your ability to keep up the pace?

I mean what do I know? Journey like that would take me three days. I'd only use 20p's worth of fuel though.

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