A Man Who does not mince his words.

[Blueboatman]

There was much talk of sodium ion recently as one alternative to lithium. The so called Salt battery. Perfect in a marine environment, no?

But. In this linky pro salt article, the lifecycle of LIFEP04 is acknowkedgrd as being up to 10,000 charging cycles. That’s the bench mark we have quickly come to accept.

-This is simply astonishing progress in useable battery technology over LA isn’t it?

Better classification /inspection of the actual charging circuitry might be a sensible way forwards for now?

As we all know, pesky capacitors (and other low grade electronic components) are habitually failing and are fitted to all manor of consumer goods that end up prematurely in land fill.

What Are Sodium-Ion Batteries, and Could They Replace Lithium?

 

[shanemax]

Yes you have, Paul Rainbow posts the photo all the time and you’ve certainly been on those threads.

I’m not sure why there’s such a concerted effort to keep posting misinformation about Lithium on this forum at the moment. Its lowering the usefulness of this great resource, and making the whole system untrustworthy for new users who may believe this bullshit.
For a while I thought this forum was immune to the sort of idiocracy that’s brewing in society, but apparently stupid is seeping into every crevice.

Paul rainbow sells lithium. Hardly an unbiased view point. Open your eyes.

 

[shanemax]

You don’t need to understand everything you use, what a pointless argument.
Lead is simple because it’s crappy old tech. Like a horse and cart, easy to understand but slow and inefficient. Modern cars are extremely complex and almost nobody could understand all of the systems. Same with lithium, more power, more reliable, longer life, better for the environment, lighter, better in every conceivable way.
But you don’t understand it so sure, let’s halt progress until you die.

Sad

 

[lustyd]

Paul rainbow sells lithium. Hardly an unbiased view point. Open your eyes.

He’s not the conspiracy theorist lunatic here. His information is well researched, well founded and agreed upon by the whole industry and science community.

Rabidly posting misinformation about fires with zero facts is the problem. In this instance we have speculation about the cause and type of fire and have no clue what the chemistry of the battery was. All you’re doing is making people worry unnecessarily. On further inspection it appears that it was a galley fire and nothing to do with the batteries.

If you don’t want comments like mine then arm yourself with some facts. The only relevant chemistry to yachties is LiFePo4, and the only relevant stories are where those batteries specifically had a problem. Unless you have this basic information I will continue to brand you and others who do similar as spreading misinformation, and will happily explain why you’re crackpots frothing at the mouth at the prospect of lithium being an issue.

 

[fredrussell]

Paul rainbow sells lithium. Hardly an unbiased view point. Open your eyes.

As far as I’m aware, he installs whatever the customer wants. And if you look back at his posts he has often said lead acid batteries still make good sense for many boaters.

 

[doug748]

As far as I’m aware, he installs whatever the customer wants. And if you look back at his posts he has often said lead acid batteries still make good sense for many boaters.

Good for him, sounds a wise approach.

There are few innovations that are without noticeable downsides. If you ignore the expense aspect, examples In my sailing lifetime are may be: chart plotters, Dacron sails and certainly AIS.

Probably the dimmest argument is to say this is "modern" or that is "old fashioned" and then expect anyone to think that you are anything but a buffoon.

.

 

[lustyd]

Perhaps you can talk us through the downsides of plotters, Dacron and AIS?

There are things which are most definitely outmoded, if you can’t see that then thats a you problem.

 

[ylop]

Perhaps you can talk us through the downsides of plotters, Dacron and AIS?

I think he was suggesting these WERE example where innovation brought “better”. Although of course Shanemax will disagree as the plotter and AIS is full of circuit board and capicitors etc and AIS needs safeguards to stop it damaging your radio or swamping the airwaves so can’t be an improvement!

 

[Biggles Wader]

Perhaps you can talk us through the downsides of plotters, Dacron and AIS?

There are things which are most definitely outmoded, if you can’t see that then thats a you problem.

Dacron??????? What the hell was wrong sewing up bolts of canvas with bits of strong hemp holding them together!
All this modern stuff is a load of old cringles

 

[Tranona]

You must not forget GRP "Frozen snot" according to US commentators and the splendid series of articles by the late lamented Bill Beavis in YM in the 1970s reporting the epidemic of "polyestermites" that were eating up GRP hulls in the south coast harbours and estuaries. Complete with sketches of what they looked like and little bits chewed out of underwater sections of boats.

Actually partly true (at least in terms of the effect on hulls surface) when the blistering from osmosis became obvious a decade later. Unfortunately he was dead by then at the early age of I think 37.

 

[Greemble]

Sad

What a brilliant & well put together argument!
I'm now completely convinced.
/sarcasm


Tell me, is this your idea of a witty and amusing riposte, put forward to "make this forum more interesting and fun"?
If so, I really hate to tell you - it didn't work.

 

[dunedin]

You must not forget GRP "Frozen snot" according to US commentators and the splendid series of articles by the late lamented Bill Beavis in YM in the 1970s reporting the epidemic of "polyestermites" that were eating up GRP hulls in the south coast harbours and estuaries. Complete with sketches of what they looked like and little bits chewed out of underwater sections of boats.

Actually partly true (at least in terms of the effect on hulls surface) when the blistering from osmosis became obvious a decade later. Unfortunately he was dead by then at the early age of I think 37.

Continuing the thread drift, I am sure that the “polyestermite” articles were very much tongue in cheek.

I don’t know much about Bill Beavis, but in terms of the tragic early death are you perhaps thinking of then YM Editor Geoff Pack who died (of cancer?) at age just 39, leaving a wife and young family? A brief history of Yachting Monthly - Yachting Monthly

 

[Poignard]

If the OP wants to convince me of anything he'll need to find a better advocate than The Man Who Does Not Mince His Words.

I've had a look at some of TMWDNMHW's other YouTube rants and he gives the impression of being seriously deranged.

 

[dunedin]

……On further inspection it appears that it was a galley fire and nothing to do with the batteries.

….

Do you have any links to further (objective) information on the boat fire?

I am interested in learning more, as if it were to have been a battery fire many of us would be interested in knowing the battery types etc.
Relying for information on a YouTuber who managed to rant on to the effect that he included Ukraine in his rant is not necessarily an objective source

 

[Tranona]

Continuing the thread drift, I am sure that the “polyestermite” articles were very much tongue in cheek.

I don’t know much about Bill Beavis, but in terms of the tragic early death are you perhaps thinking of then YM Editor Geoff Pack who died (of cancer?) at age just 39, leaving a wife and young family? A brief history of Yachting Monthly - Yachting Monthly

Yes it was tongue in cheek. Bill was a very funny writer and this was in the days of Des Sleightholm as editor who also hard a wry sense of humour. The polyestermite was "believed" for a short period before he owned up to inventing it. Bill wrote I think 4 or 5 books on beginning sailing and nautical terms which he also illustrated . Remember buying one or two when I started out. Geoff Pack was later.

 

[ducked]

There was much talk of sodium ion recently as one alternative to lithium. The so called Salt battery. Perfect in a marine environment, no?

But. In this linky pro salt article, the lifecycle of LIFEP04 is acknowkedgrd as being up to 10,000 charging cycles. That’s the bench mark we have quickly come to accept.

-This is simply astonishing progress in useable battery technology over LA isn’t it?

Better classification /inspection of the actual charging circuitry might be a sensible way forwards for now?

As we all know, pesky capacitors (and other low grade electronic components) are habitually failing and are fitted to all manor of consumer goods that end up prematurely in land fill.

What Are Sodium-Ion Batteries, and Could They Replace Lithium?

Well, they also say "However, these batteries are rated for around 4500 charge cycles, which is significantly more than typical lithium-ion batteries." so the "up to" in "up to 10,000 charging cycles" is apparently pretty important, and that is apparently not a typical benchmark

 

[lustyd]

I think he was suggesting these WERE example where innovation brought “better”.

Ah that makes more sense. Sorry was working through locks at the time so possibly not sufficient brain engaged with the forum

 

[lustyd]

Do you have any links to further (objective) information on the boat fire?

I am interested in learning more, as if it were to have been a battery fire many of us would be interested in knowing the battery types etc.
Relying for information on a YouTuber who managed to rant on to the effect that he included Ukraine in his rant is not necessarily an objective source

I don’t but it was a quick Google that led to posts including “after” pictures clearly showing the boat with damage to the middle where the galley was, and no damage to the stern where the battery bank was apparently installed.
The only source that it was a battery fire seems to be a fireman who, knowing it was an electric boat, said “probably lithium batteries” and everyone took that as their chance to pounce and rant.

Maybe it was a battery fire, if so probably not the ones we use in most yachts. If that’s the case then bring evidence rather than speculation is my thought on this. Preventing progress because you don’t like progress is ridiculous, but dragging others down too is unhelpful, hence my robust responses on these threads of late.

There are too many weak minds in our society to allow this stuff to continue. I strongly regret not being more vocal on the big vote we all had that went to hell in a handbasket. Never again.

 

[shanemax]

I don’t but it was a quick Google that led to posts including “after” pictures clearly showing the boat with damage to the middle where the galley was, and no damage to the stern where the battery bank was apparently installed.
The only source that it was a battery fire seems to be a fireman who, knowing it was an electric boat, said “probably lithium batteries” and everyone took that as their chance to pounce and rant.

Maybe it was a battery fire, if so probably not the ones we use in most yachts. If that’s the case then bring evidence rather than speculation is my thought on this. Preventing progress because you don’t like progress is ridiculous, but dragging others down too is unhelpful, hence my robust responses on these threads of late.

There are too many weak minds in our society to allow this stuff to continue. I strongly regret not being more vocal on the big vote we all had that went to hell in a handbasket. Never again.

There are none as blind as them that do not want to see, and none as deaf as them that do not want to hear.

 

[fredrussell]

There are none as blind as them that do not want to see, and none as deaf as them that do not want to hear.

The conspiracy theorist’s mantra. Along with the classic “there is evidence but They are hiding it from us”.