A Glaze.

[gjgm]

Quite what is the test and where?Is UK a fair test for Med, and v.v., colour vs white gel...maybe folkw have some input...

 

[Marine Reflections]

Quite what is the test and where?Is UK a fair test for Med, and v.v., colour vs white gel...maybe folkw have some input...

Gavin, you've sent me a PM that disappeared on me opening it? Don't know what happened there.

It's a UK test of stand alone protection products.

No, UK not a fair test for the Med, but will give us some idea. If you fancy flying me out I'll conduct it there, but then would a Med test be fair on UK conditions?

Colour versus white gel would be a gel coat test, maybe further down the line.

 

[Hurricane]

It's a UK test of stand alone protection products.

No, UK not a fair test for the Med, but will give us some idea. If you fancy flying me out I'll conduct it there, but then would a Med test be fair on UK conditions?

IMO, a Med test would be more appropriate to the UK than a UK test for the Med - if you see what I mean.

The BIG issue for the Med is that wax based products run off in the higher heat.

IMO, the test would be completely worthless if this higher heat aspect wasn't part of the test.

 

[Marine Reflections]

IMO, a Med test would be more appropriate to the UK than a UK test for the Med - if you see what I mean.

The BIG issue for the Med is that wax based products run off in the higher heat.

IMO, the test would be completely worthless if this higher heat aspect wasn't part of the test.

To be clear - it's a UK test, for the UK conditions for now, but I agree with you a real test for products in the Med would need to be in the Med.

Perhaps when we're done in the UK after the first year and if we have survivors, I can reduce the size of the panel (perhaps cut it into smaller squares) and send them over to be placed in a suitable location to 'bake'?

 

[Hurricane]

To be clear - it's a UK test, for the UK conditions for now, but I agree with you a real test for products in the Med would need to be in the Med.

Perhaps when we're done in the UK after the first year and if we have survivors, I can reduce the size of the panel (perhaps cut it into smaller squares) and send them over to be placed in a suitable location to 'bake'?

Yea - but my point is that A Glaze is pointless in the UK when waxes work so well.
The real test is where the waxes don't work.

 

[Marine Reflections]

Yea - but my point is that A Glaze is pointless in the UK when waxes work so well.
The real test is where the waxes don't work.

So what I'm hearing from you is that a UK test of surface protection products in UK conditions is "pointless and worthless", due to the heat in the Med?

AGlaze to name one in the line up is a UK product, used in the UK by many.

Short of offering to ship the test panel out to a hotter climate for the testing to continue, I'm stumped as to what else I can do to make the test more fair?

Surely on the subject of heat, what works in the Med will exceed here in the UK?

Do we not suffer from oxidation and gel coat degredation here in the UK as we have wax?

Heat plays a factor, of that there is no doubt, but so do UV rays, oxygen, salt water, application / preparation methods and follow on maintenance procedures, heat is just one factor.

The real test for you, is a test in the Med, as that is where you are based. I agree with you that a true test and to put each product under real scrutiny would be one that involved all the factors that would degrade the surface.
Manufactures spend fortunes on having their products tested and fully evaluated in controlled environments, with accelerated exposures to various elements.

My efforts will fall short of those lab conditions by a mile, but it would still be of interest wouldn't it?

 

[Hurricane]

So what I'm hearing from you is that a UK test of surface protection products in UK conditions is "pointless and worthless", due to the heat in the Med?

AGlaze to name one in the line up is a UK product, used in the UK by many.

Short of offering to ship the test panel out to a hotter climate for the testing to continue, I'm stumped as to what else I can do to make the test more fair?

Surely on the subject of heat, what works in the Med will exceed here in the UK?

Do we not suffer from oxidation and gel coat degredation here in the UK as we have wax?

Heat plays a factor, of that there is no doubt, but so do UV rays, oxygen, salt water, application / preparation methods and follow on maintenance procedures, heat is just one factor.

The real test for you, is a test in the Med, as that is where you are based. I agree with you that a true test and to put each product under real scrutiny would be one that involved all the factors that would degrade the surface.
Manufactures spend fortunes on having their products tested and fully evaluated in controlled environments, with accelerated exposures to various elements.

My efforts will fall short of those lab conditions by a mile, but it would still be of interest wouldn't it?

I wasn't intending to "touch a nerve".
I was trying to point out that certain products are more appropriate to the geographical areas.
I'm sure you also agree to that point.

I know that the likes of A Glaze are used in the UK but they really come into their own when used in hotter climates.
Likewise waxes work in the UK but IMHO don't work as well in the heat.

My main point is that I think you are wasting your time unless your tests are carried out with the correct geographical input.

From my experience, the geography is the most important variable in the tests.

 

[DougH]

I wasn't intending to "touch a nerve".
I was trying to point out that certain products are more appropriate to the geographical areas.
I'm sure you also agree to that point.

I know that the likes of A Glaze are used in the UK but they really come into their own when used in hotter climates.
Likewise waxes work in the UK but IMHO don't work as well in the heat.

My main point is that I think you are wasting your time unless your tests are carried out with the correct geographical input.

From my experience, the geography is the most important variable in the tests.

Geez Mike, give the guy a break.

He is doing this off his own back and if UK usage is where he is starting that's surely something we should be supporting him with.

If you feel so strongly why don't you get some people together and test the products in the Med.

I know your not an antagonistic person and are always the first to offer help and advice, but this sort of 'touchy nerve' correspondence is the reason that I said in the beginning that I refused to debate the subject.

Doug

 

[Hurricane]

Geez Mike, give the guy a break.

He is doing this off his own back and if UK usage is where he is starting that's surely something we should be supporting him with.

If you feel so strongly why don't you get some people together and test the products in the Med.

I know your not an antagonistic person and are always the first to offer help and advice, but this sort of 'touchy nerve' correspondence is the reason that I said in the beginning that I refused to debate the subject.

Doug

OK Doug

Maybe I said the wrong thing
But I was trying to avoid him wasting his time.

You wouldn't test snow chains for your car in the desert.

I appreciate that he is doing this off his own back.
I just wonder how valid any results would be.

 

[Marine Reflections]

Thank you Doug, but Mike does have a valid point and I understand where he's coming from.
A Uk Test is going to be different from a Med test.

It's clear to see Mike you were trying to save me wasting my time, which I welcome wholeheartedly.

Heat may only be one factor, it just so happens that it's a big factor, I get that, but I don't think a UK test of the products would be a complete waste of time.

If after a year of UK conditions we still have three or four products performing well, it may well be a good exercise to send them on to the Med to see what else they are capable of.

If I were based in the Med and performed the comparison over there, how will that help owners in the UK?

If in the Uk we can have relatively good success and performance out of a product costing a tenth of the price of what a Med based owner requires, then surely that would be of benefit to UK based owners.
If however some products common in the UK fail after a few months, then it should be obvious that perhaps we need something with a bit more grunt.

The shocker would of course be if expensive products fail in these conditions, what hope is there for them in the Med?



"You wouldn't test snow chains for your car in the desert"

You would if you had them and were losing traction in the sand :encouragement:

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

"You wouldn't test snow chains for your car in the desert"

You would if you had them and were losing traction in the sand :encouragement:

Excellent comeback!

Mike's used the wrong language in his post above, but that aside, he makes a very valid point (which Tony has got) which is that the results of a UK test won't have much bearing on Med users, because of different climatic conditions and in particular the effect of higher temperatures on wax-based products. Nevertheless, most participants on the forum are in the UK (although that balance is slowly shifting ) so a UK test is definitely worthwhile. I applaud the effort that's going in to making this happen.

 

[Hurricane]

You wouldn't test snow chains for your car in the desert"

You would if you had them and were losing traction in the sand

touché


Good luck with the tests