A few questions ref med sailing boat prep and batteries etc

[davethedog]

As said at present our domestic bank has 2 x VARTA 180Ah leisure batteries and unsure of the age and we are looking to replace/increase the capacity.

Thinking of 3 of these possibly:

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-180ah-xplorer-leisure-battery/

 

[cmedsailor]

Back to med sailing boat preparation, two useful items that we Med sailors use are a "tent" (awnings) around the boom usually when at anchor and even more important, both at anchor and while sailing, these "sides" at the bimini (have no idea what they are called in English; usually you install them with a zip at the sides and the back of the bimini and can remove or roll them up when not using them). It's a material that let's the air in but blocks the sun out. Very nice to have during the sun set where the sun is too low for the bimini to protect you.

Edit: I am adding a picture to see what I mean

 

[Heckler]

Stu, Are you using sealed or open? There seem to be various types of Numax G.

Supposedly sealed but actually had a small vent on one end, I put a small plastic tube on that and fed it to a small plastic bottle in case of electrolite exiting. Also had flush caps. I used to remove every year and top up, I suspect that helped the longevity.

 

[Mistroma]

+1
We added zip in Battyline panels and they make a huge difference. Also bought a couple of cheap reflective sheets (usually stuck inside car windows). I tie these outside the sprayhood when at anchor in very hot weather and they cut out a lot of heat but do make the cockpit a bit darker. A central roll-up sprayhood window also helps with ventilation.

I also found it worthwhile making a vinyl covered foam cushion to cover the worktop above the fridge/freezer. This was a cheap way to improve insulation. The worktop used to become extremely hot in sunlight and now feels very cold if I put a hand under the cushion. Well worth doing even if you can improve insulation on side and bottom as well.

Don't get a dark coloured bimini or sprayhood if replacing your existing one. It's like sitting under an 8kW heater in the med. if there's no breeze. A cheap option is to fit a white cover on top when at anchor (over boom or even just bimini).

I bought T105s before leaving UK as they weren't a lot more than many "leisure" batteries. My existing Tudor batteries were showing signs of aging and likely to die within a year. I avoided very expensive options on grounds that the financial risk wasn't acceptable. I assumed that warranties pushed up cost and were unlikely to be honoured after leaving UK. I know of one person who is seriously out of pocket because he paid for top of the line AGMs and needed to replace them after a year. Fault was with his charging system but would have saved a lot by knackering cheap batteries instead of expensive ones.

 

[davethedog]

As said at present our domestic bank has 2 x VARTA 180Ah leisure batteries and unsure of the age and we are looking to replace/increase the capacity.

Thinking of 3 of these possibly:

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-180ah-xplorer-leisure-battery/

Any thoughts ref these batteries then?

 

[Richard10002]

Any thoughts ref these batteries then?

150 cycles = not very many

 

[vyv_cox]

150 cycles = not very many

Good point. This year I have bought Winner Solar batteries that will take 600 cycles. http://winnerbattery.com/en/batteri...ve-power-flooded/motive-power-batteries/solar

 

[davethedog]

Thanks and vyv and may look into those then. Going to make my own solar arch and install more solar panels first.

 

[De.windhoos]

Check the insulation of your fridge. Add insulation if possible.
Your fridge will be the largest power consumer on your boat.

A deck shower is a very, very nice to have. In the summer we never shower indoors, we just use the deck shower.
Maybe, if possible, add a water tank, maybe a flexible tank.
Add an active water filter, that way you can drink from your tanks and don’t have to lug bottles all the time (bottles are bad for the environment)
Get a good anchor, a Bruce might work in the muddy flats in the uk, but will not hold in the Med. so Mantis, Rocna, Delta.
Have enough chain, min 60 mtr and a strong Windlass because you will pick up somebody’s chain at a certain point.
This is also useful because fuel quality can differ a lot http://ph.parker.com/us/17583/en/fuel-filter-funnel

 

[jimbaerselman]

This thread has been very useful to check my "prepare for Med" web page. See http://www.jimbsail.info/preparing/fitting-out-mediterranean

I can see one or two minor edits are needed . . . with thanks to all who've posted!

 

[maxy]

We are in the fortunate position of both living aboard and running a yachting business based in the eastern med. We've lived on board now for nearly 15 years, gained a lot of experience on ours and others yachts. We've learned a lot and actually changed our views over the years, particularly about solar panels.

Batteries: Dont buy cheap or non deep cycle batteries. We have seen clients buy starter batteries because they were cheap, and replaced them in a year or so. Trojans are very good, but we have also good experience with Vetus sealed batteries. Currently we are using a 500 amp bank of cheap Turkish Gel batteries as an experiment. After 4 years they are still going strong.

The purpose of a large battery bank is so you don't drop (discharge) them as much as with a single or double battery setup. Batteries have a finite life based around the number or charge cycles and how deeply they have been discharged. The less they are discharged the longer they last, hence go for the largest bank you have space for.

Charging: We put 150 watts of solar on before we left the UK. Not enough. Today for several clients we have fitted banks of 4-500 watts, run through Victron MPPT controllers they produce huge outputs. The general problem is people undersize the cables, so all that power is wasted. The Victron controller will accept up to around 100 volts input, so 4 x 100 watt panels can be wired in series (4 panels output as much as 80 volts dc) still using 6mm cable. We have two systems currently running producing 40 amps all day long.

Didn't see anyone mention smart alternator controllers. We now have a Balmar alternator and smart controller rated at 110 amps (at 12v). Most alternator deliver half their rated amps. I've seen 80 amps at 1400rpm and 63 amps at tickover. It cuts charging time under engine drastically. The smart controller fully charges the batteries like a shore charger, even using a standard alternator (with a small mod). Look at Adverc, (we've had one on each of our last three yachts) its as cheap as a solar panel and highly effective. Balmar alternators are very good, but oh so expensive, Adverc gives better bang for the buck.

Use a good quality charger, as powerful as you can afford. We now have the Victron charger/inverter 80 amps charging 2000 watts inverting. It also changes over so quickly (30ms) that sensitive equipment like DVD players and the like do not reset. Our old 1500 charger could boil a 2kw kettle, although it did complain. The Victron cannot, it trips 2/3 the way through. I'm told it will deliver 2kw but at much lower temperatures that in the Med. next time I would buy the 2.5kw or 3kw.

Wind charging: I love them, but are a waste of time in the Med. generally there is not enough wind when sailing. You don't seek out windy anchorages. Generally where they are mounted shadows the solar panels undesirably.

We calculated 70% of our cruising in the early years was under engine because of lack of wind. certainly a light weather sail sometimes avoids using the engine.

Electrics and charging onboard is a huge subject, but reasonable quality components and a little understanding will see batteries last a decade or more.

Monitoring batteries can be as simple as regularly monitoring the voltage. Much more useful and inexpensive is the Victron BMV 700 range (there are others). This shows current battery voltage, current charge or discharge current, hours left before fully discharged at current rate of discharge and percentage of discharge (SOC)

Yes I do like Victron, especially as now you can monitor your setup via bluetooth on your phone. I also like Adverc and Mastervolt too, basically any well engineered product, but I am not connected to any.


PM if you need any more info.

Regards

Kevin

 

[Graham376]

Most alternator deliver half their rated amps.

Or even less if no booster fitted. With the solar topping up the batteries for most of the day at around 14.8v, when we start the engine rarely see more than around 10 amps from the 70 amp alternator.

 

[Heckler]

Or even less if no booster fitted. With the solar topping up the batteries for most of the day at around 14.8v, when we start the engine rarely see more than around 10 amps from the 70 amp alternator.

Exactly, Ive never reckoned the Balmar for the simple reason the full capacity is never used. I rarely see more than 20 amps when I start the engine and that for only a short time.

 

[GHA]

Didn't see anyone mention smart alternator controllers. We now have a Balmar alternator and smart controller rated at 110 amps (at 12v). Most alternator deliver half their rated amps. I've seen 80 amps at 1400rpm and 63 amps at tickover. It cuts charging time under engine drastically.

Probably worth mentioning that newer alternators might well have regulators set to something like 14.6v anyway (mine is) so no gain to be had from fitting a smart regulator (unless you want the alternator to go to float, probably too early). After 80% SOC it will still take something like another 4 hours or more to get to 100%, smart regulators can't do anything about that.

And batteries decide how much current they'll take anyway,above about 80% SOC current going in will drop off rapidly so connect a power station you still won't get a more current going in.


And a fantastic post about how to be nice to batteries >

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/what-count-as-a-cycle-battery-life-201985.html#post2642841

 

[davethedog]

Many thanks for the advice and here is the current plan.

1.make up a ss arch in 1 inch tubing and connectors.
2.fit decent size solar panels of at least 500w total and an mppt controller.
3. Renew the domestic batteries and add an extra one or 2.
4. See how it goes when we get there next year as we do have a fridge and separate freezer at,so can add more solar if required.
5. Will add some 12v fans and also look at the wind scoops.

Thanks

Dtd

 

[macd]

Many thanks for the advice and here is the current plan.

1.make up a ss arch in 1 inch tubing and connectors.
2.fit decent size solar panels of at least 500w total and an mppt controller.
3. Renew the domestic batteries and add an extra one or 2.
4. See how it goes when we get there next year as we do have a fridge and separate freezer at,so can add more solar if required.
5. Will add some 12v fans and also look at the wind scoops.

Sounds like a plan, DtD. An entire arch made of proprietary connectors and 1" tube could be pretty wobbly unless well-thought out. Judicious cross-bracing/triangulation will help. Don't exclude the possibility of including some bracing with rigging wire and bottle screws (often cheaper, lighter and more versatile than simply adding more tube).

I suspect you'll find 500W of solar plenty. On most days in the Med that will easily keep up with demand in, say, April to September inclusive. The extra batteries will offer a useful reserve for successive cloudy days which, although not that common, do happen. Much will obviously depend on your consumption regime: you might consider LED lighting (and nav lights/anchor lights) which are pretty much a no-brainer for liveaboard life. For most interior lights that's just a change of element. Perhaps the remaining important variable is fridge/freezer efficiency, often the biggest power-guzzler in the Med. It may be worth trying to monitor consumption and compressor time-on % during your first season.

 

[Graham376]

Sounds like a plan, DtD. An entire arch made of proprietary connectors and 1" tube could be pretty wobbly unless well-thought out. Judicious cross-bracing/triangulation will help. Don't exclude the possibility of including some bracing with rigging wire and bottle screws (often cheaper, lighter and more versatile than simply adding more tube).

Good advice, don't underestimate the accelerated weight of panels 6 - 8 ft above the water, when rolling. Another option is to design a heavier welded gantry with an aft slope so it can be used as davits as well. Only takes a minute to haul our dinghy up at night complete with outboard, harder to steal than afloat on a painter.

 

[davethedog]

Thanks once more and plan to use the existing traveller arch (we own a Hunter Legend 41) as part of the design.