A fall in boat prices on horizon?

[westernman]

Nearer 80%, but with completely different laws on renting.

You get some landlords with huge portfolios - think most of Central Köln is owned by the Catholic Cathedral. Renters have long-term stability, in many cities it's almost impossible to get rid of them if they're paying on time and there's local rent control, so you charge the market rate.

There are also a lot of private land lords in Germany.

 

[mrming]

£20k is a very optimistic valuation for what is an old and high mileage example.
Your valuation is probably in tge correct area.

To be fair that is an insurance valuation, reflecting what it might cost to replace the boat. I’ve recently experienced a dismasted race boat which turned out to be under insured due to recent inflation etc. Not the same as a market valuation, which we all seem to think is far lower.

 

[Snowgoose-1]

I think there is more action nowadays than there ever was when I left school in the early 1960's . You could work in a mind numbing car factory, an office clerk , or work in one of the utilities or be a salesman of some kind.

Now there is a ton of action with new products and services . Think of the things we have now, Smartphones, marine electronics , computers just to name a few. You just have to find a gap in the market place where you think you can do a little bit better.

My own view is that you can make a killing by offering a real service to people. That's what's lacking today. Folks are happy to pay a little bit more if they are treated nicely and will come back to you and recommend you.

It's something the Hedge Funds, CEO's , shareholders and bottom line temporary investors don't seem to understand.

 

[mrming]

My own view is that you can make a killing by offering a real service to people. That's what's lacking today. Folks are happy to pay a little bit more if they are treated nicely and will come back to you and recommend you.

Interestingly, the marine industry is one of the worst offenders for this. Outside of sailmakers, who I’ve always had a great experience with, I can count the number of reliable marine contractors in my wider area on the fingers of one hand. The South coast is even worse, with levels of customer service that would mean going out of business in any other industry (except perhaps domestic building). The exceptions (including members on here), are fantastic of course, but the overall situation is dire in my experience. It’s not necessarily that people are not well meaning, but they just don’t have basic knowledge of time and project management and setting realistic expectations for their customers.

 

[lustyd]

It's something the Hedge Funds, CEO's , shareholders and bottom line temporary investors don't seem to understand.

I think they understand it just fine. Anyone who makes a successful business offering a better service is bought out in order to keep competition low and ensure the cheap crappy services can continue to profiteer. Not many business owners will turn down a few million quid to sell out!

 

[dgadee]

By the way, I think about half the population of Germany lives in rented accommodation. A far higher percentage than in the UK. They don't seem to have the same difficulties.

When I lived in Munich in the early 1990s I knew the son of a famous painter. He lived in a rented flat which I thought was odd since he had one of his father's paintings on the wall - worth a million dollars. The father owned a monastery and a Schloss. Flats were expensive but we had a University one - spacious with two shower rooms, right in the centre - which all the Germans envied.

 

[Tranona]

Indeed the young inherit the earth and everything in it. We arrive with nothing and leave the same way, bit of a bugger really.

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Quite right. We make our own way in the world during the time we are here. You only really appreciate that when you are getting near the end and reflect on how far you have come - in more ways than one. Even more so if you look back at how far your parents came.

It is different for those currently in the middle of their lifespan as they are the ones that are having a tough time, just as our generation did - or indeed all generations.

 

[steve yates]

The end of landlords: the surprisingly simple solution to the UK housing crisis
What do you think of that argument?

Its an interesting article, I’m not convinced about the argument that there is plenty of housing. For a start, londons population was under 7 million in 1980, and is now just under 10million.
More to the point, it”s rental properties that matter, not just number of properties. Not only did vast amounts of rental properties disappear with thatchers council house sell off, the councils stopped building more.

Most private landlords are not in the business of providing homes for tenants, they are trying to make money and build wealth. It would be no bad thing if rent controls came back and private landlordism became a minority thing again, but I can’t see it happening.

 

[steve yates]

And I say that as a landlord

 

[Robih]

It would be no bad thing if rent controls came back and private landlordism became a minority thing again, but I can’t see it happening.

It can’t happen, the public sector doesn’t have the necessary capital. There would need to be a massive Gov’t bond issuance to fund public ownership of let property and the Cost of Capital would reintroduce the expensive nature of homing provision. It would take the failure of liberal democracy and state sequestration of wealth for such a programme to be introduced. That’s been tried elsewhere and it doesn’t look pretty. Or maybe a highly efficient and buoyant UK economy with high levels of taxation for an extended period. That doesn’t look very likely.

 

[lustyd]

Quite right. We make our own way in the world during the time we are here. You only really appreciate that when you are getting near the end and reflect on how far you have come - in more ways than one. Even more so if you look back at how far your parents came.

It is different for those currently in the middle of their lifespan as they are the ones that are having a tough time, just as our generation did - or indeed all generations.

Head firmly in sand. Tell that to people living in slums in India. That’s the direction the UK is headed and no amount of hard work can overcome that kind of inequality.

 

[SaltyC]

Head firmly in sand. Tell that to people living in slums in India. That’s the direction the UK is headed and no amount of hard work can overcome that kind of inequality.

Such an Optimistic view. My children are in a similar position to what I was in at their age but with larger houses and newer / bigger cars and better dinghies. They also have more material goods and better holidays than we did.

Admittedly their levels of debt are eyewatering to me, but then mine were eyewatering to my parents generation.

 

[onesea]

I think £6k. Though the wind vane may up that a bit. Sails look ok. Needs a new engine, perhaps.

Well she's nearly there £5600, I doubt she will get much higher.

However as alluded to earlier the seller takes a firm line:
"This is a legally binding contract. If you bid, win and then back out I will take legal steps to hold you to your obligation in this contract."

If I was a buyer that would put me off, just in attitude.

In my experience selling boats takes time, it can take a week or 2 to get a keen potential buyer to see the boat.

For boats eBay is a great market place to get your product seen. Not the greatest place to actually make sales.

As for the future of boat prices? Those can can afford 10k mooring charges will carry on with overly expensive complicated boats. Supported by service companies that know how to charge.
The value of those boats will continue to creep up however depreciation means they will always lose money.

Those of us on the edges with affordable swinging moorings trot moorings, harbour moorings etc. older second hand boats.

We will become increasingly marginalised, with costs increasing. Boat prices are probably stable, however as a buyer you need to be aware of mutton dressed as lamb.

There will always be bargains, those that need to release capital or reduce liability now.

 

[ashtead]

What’s curious to me is that despite the reporting of dire circumstances many seem to be taking advantage of holiday trips in Feb/March and the flights seem full to far flung islands based on what I saw in the BA lounge at Heathrow recently-some clear could be business travelllers but many were off on hols. Indeed BA seem to have expanded Club to accommodate the new found flying boom even if they continue to neglect the Carribean fleet. Likewise looking for newish cars they seem to be reserved almost as soon as you make an enquiry . Now this might be down to shortage of 2020 vehicles but I just surprised how active this segment is. Put in a search for a newish boat by which I mean say 5-10 years old and choices remain limited it seems if you rule out Croatia charter boats and suchlike. As for the prices of some new models I still cannot believe how much a12m boat is today.

 

[lustyd]

Such an Optimistic view. My children are in a similar position to what I was in at their age but with larger houses and newer / bigger cars and better dinghies. They also have more material goods and better holidays than we did.

Admittedly their levels of debt are eyewatering to me, but then mine were eyewatering to my parents generation.

A single data point compared to an expert view looking at the whole economy and population. Have you examined their equity compared to yours at their age and offset all debts? It's possible your kids are an exception, there obviously some outliers in the data including Gary who came from a poor background and is now a multi-millionaire. That doesn't change the macro picture though.

 

[mrming]

Here is an interesting touchstone on Ebay:

Albin Ballad Yacht valued at £20,000 in a survey last year. NO RESERVE price. | eBay

Standing at £4,100 now with 7 days to go. I always think early bidders are bored 14 year old boys so we can probably ignore that. Where do we think it will end up? It looks a very handy example, good recent survey, though I doubt it would ever fetch 20k on the open market.

Usable Ballads are probably in the range 8 - 15k asking prices, the vendor might arguably get 10/12k with a conventional sale? Bearing in mind the degree of pressure and jeopardy in buying at auction what is your final guess?

I am going for 8 thousand pounds - though what that would prove either way I am not sure.

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Now sitting at £5,600 with 3 days to go.

 

[dgadee]

I would never bid in that way. I use eSnipe to put in a last second bid.

 

[SaltyC]

I would never bid in that way. I use eSnipe to put in a last second bid.

Sight unseen, no survey??? Hmmm, no thanks. Shades of what happened during/ after covid where many have had fingers badly burnt.

 

[dgadee]

Sight unseen, no survey??? Hmmm, no thanks. Shades of what happened during/ after covid where many have had fingers badly burnt.

No, I meant that I would not make my bid public as early as this. No way would I buy a boat without seeing/survey.

 

[oldgit]

In answer to the original question a post Covid gentle decline in the half decent boat dept., anything good and a minter its gone before you will ever hear about it.
There is still a lot of folding out there looking for floating home and still some folks moving up in size and space/pace.
Tired worn out old old stuff still selling at bargain basement money, especially if you know the owner and can speak to him direct.
Around 10% of the boats on our club moorings up for sale officially and unofficially, probably a few others seriously thinking about it.
My worry ...some of these boats have been lying idle pre Covid, 5 + years of corrosion and neglect.