A bit heavy handed?

Giblets said:
Careful what you all wish for regarding the plaques/stickers. They could decide to use gert big numbers like wot they do on Windemere for all the resident boats! T'would make their job of spotting and charging visitors a lot easier. :devilish:
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The big numbers are registration numbers. Any boat with a motor has to have one. Then there is the annual registration sticker to show you have renewed the registration. . If you have a mooring there is also an annual mooring sticker.

The red square after the zero is the annual sticker.

FerryNab.jpg
 
nicho said:
My gripe was the follow up e-mail having paid the dues, in my opinion, in a timely manner.
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The email wasn't about paying the dues, it was about not displaying the sticker.

It was automatically generated because the patrol saw your boat without a sticker, but when they checked the records a couple of days later they found you had paid. So you got the "Paid, but then didn't bother to apply the sticker" standard email. No, that doesn't apply to your actual situation, but the harbourmaster doesn't personally investigate each situation and then take out his quill pen and draft a personal letter to address it. It's an automated (or more likely semi-automated or manual-but-routine) process - you're taking offence at a machine!

It's like paying your gas bill a little late, and then getting upset about the reminder letter that drops on the mat the next morning. Most people would recognise that it crossed in the post with their cheque, think "I've paid now, this doesn't apply to me", and ignore it. Not complain that they'd been sent a reminder when they'd already paid.

Of course the harbour office could update their systems to be more real-time to reduce this kind of thing, but I don't think their turn-of-the-21st-century way of working is unreasonably bad.

Pete
 
All of their mailings about harbour fees lack tact and courtesy - just wait until you get the renewal notice. It would help if they could give them a bit of a polish to take the rough edges off.

The staff are great though when you speak to them.
 
I think these notices are far more abrupt than they need to be. I think this is in part a consequence of the appointment of officials rather than election, the accountability of Harbour Master to the user is limited. This might conceivably be better for conservation than having a Harbour Master more concerned with his or her popularity. Another contributory factor must be the "effective monopoly" created by the very high demand for moorings and berths in Chichester Harbour and Solent area. There is some scope for competition but you need to be willing to pay a lot more, for example to move to the Hamble. Someone has written that they prefer Poole Harbour, having found it more pleasant. What about Portsmouth, Gosport, Langstone, Hamble, Lymington etc ? Are they more polite with such reminders? I suspect that this abruptness may be common to nearly any situation where there is an asymmetry of immediate coercive authority. As another contributor has pointed out, see what kind of letter you get if you miss a step with your telecom, power, water or energy provider, let alone local council, police, tax, customs etc... The only reminders I have ever seen in the UK that are polite are from insurance companies, because they face competition and you can open a new insurance policy in minutes with a number of competitors and for memberships that are entirely elective such as RYA.
 
bluemoongaffer said:
All of their mailings about harbour fees lack tact and courtesy - just wait until you get the renewal notice. It would help if they could give them a bit of a polish to take the rough edges off.

The staff are great though when you speak to them.
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When I popped in to pay, the lady was extremely pleasant - partly why I was so surprised at the tone of their e-mail
 
I don't have a dog in this fight since I doubt I'll ever have a boat in Chichester, but the thing that struck me was the massive multiple of the fee as a fine for not displaying a poxy sticker. Presumably stickers can fall off or even be removed by "mischievous" people. Since they do know who has paid, this kind of heavy-handed bureaucracy just smacks of unaccountability. If they are lead by ex-service types perhaps that is where it comes from - maybe someone should challenge it in court?

cheers

Rum Run
 
Rum Run said:
I don't have a dog in this fight since I doubt I'll ever have a boat in Chichester, but the thing that struck me was the massive multiple of the fee as a fine for not displaying a poxy sticker. Presumably stickers can fall off or even be removed by "mischievous" people. Since they do know who has paid, this kind of heavy-handed bureaucracy just smacks of unaccountability. If they are lead by ex-service types perhaps that is where it comes from - maybe someone should challenge it in court?

cheers

Rum Run
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Otherwise chancers would not bother.
Pay when you get caught, probably save your money most seasons.
 
Fantasie 19 said:
True, but to be fair the guys who check the stickers are out on a rib without access to the computer in the office... and there are a lot of boats in Chichester Harbour.... :)
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S, not really a valid argument in this day & age with waterproof smartphones, tablets and internet connections.
 
I remember a few years ago going into the harbour masters office saying could I please buy a sticker - the response was "we don't have stickers sir but I can sell you a plaque". Sums the place up really!
 
Rum Run said:
Presumably they do have a VHF or mobile, and someone in the office, with a computer, could answer and check?
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You missed the "and there are a lot of boats in Chichester Harbour" bit... they'd be on the VHF (or tablet/smartphone/laptop) to the office all day unless they can get the vast majority to abide by the requirement..

I've had a boat in the harbour for 6 years and have never noticed the wording - I must look next time! I just apply for the stickers (online) in about February and when it comes I stick it on the boat & tender just before I launch... no issue... nice bunch of people whenever I've spoken to them... by the by I've always considered it chicken feed for having what must be one of the most lovely harbours on the south coast as a cruising ground... :D
 
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I had 40 years in Poole and stickers dispensed through the YCs or boatyards not direct from the harbour commissioners, usually half way through the season so we often had an out of date one displayed early season. There was no hunt 'em out operations policy as far as I know, just if you went to the quay you would be charged the higher visitor rates for a stay instead of the local's rate. Before then when I had a boat for a year at Emsworth and sometimes anchored off East head I remember the continuous presence of the revenue men looking for offenders. Poole by contrast makes no charge for anchoring anywhere inside the harbour and you only pay harbour dues when going into the marinas or at the Town Quay or marina , a much more friendly approach surely.
 
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Robin said:
Poole by contrast makes no charge for anchoring anywhere inside the harbour and you only pay harbour dues when going into the marinas or at the Town Quay or marina , a much more friendly approach surely.
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True, is this in part because Poole has revenue sources from commercial operations including shipping, and that there is limited anchoring for yachts with appreciable draft ?

I know there are some anchorages but I always go either into the Town Quay, which is relatively expensive, or stay out at Studland (which is also at present free of charge).

I think some harbour dues can be justified but most people seem to resent to zeal with which they are pursued. Eventually you just get used to it, it makes the customary anchorages a treat.

Anyway well done Poole for setting a good example !
 
WestwardBound said:
True, is this in part because Poole has revenue sources from commercial operations including shipping, and that there is limited anchoring for yachts with appreciable draft ?

I know there are some anchorages but I always go either into the Town Quay, which is relatively expensive, or stay out at Studland (which is also at present free of charge).

I think some harbour dues can be justified but most people seem to resent to zeal with which they are pursued. Eventually you just get used to it, it makes the customary anchorages a treat.

Anyway well done Poole for setting a good example !
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Studland Bay is not under the jurisdiction of Poole Harbour Commissioners. (PHC)

Yes there is commercial traffic contributing to the coffers in Poole, but then that applies elsewhere too like Dartmouth (also enthusiastic collectors of revenue IIRC) and even Fowey (lovely place with nice staff) Salcombe made themselves very avoidable to me so we always went straight on by.

There are places to anchor in Poole with deep draught but you need to know where and how/when to get to them and it is less easy to get out of the tide currents to avoid wind against tide situations. There are deeper spots off South Deep, Goathorn point and even a deepish hole off Arne that we used with 7ft draught, but none of these are convenient for provisioning or eating ashore in Poole. The YC marinas are cheaper and better than Town Quay or the adjacent Dolphin visitor marina but they are obliged to add in harbour dues at short stay rates to their overnight charges as they act as the official agent collectors for PHC
 
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Nicho,

years ago I sold my 22, she was left ashore for 3-4 years while I played with another boat, then I bought her back.

It all happened very quickly and I hadn't time to organise harbour dues, but as that years' new stickers - sorry, plaques - were the same colour as the old one I thought I'd get away with it for a week or two.

Not so, intercepted by a gimlet eyed 1,000 year old harbour bod off Itchenor, when he looked at our plaque he could barely get the words out; " that's ...It's...fff four years out of date ! "

My crew said afterwards " I thought he was at least going to have a stroke, if not burn a hole right through his boat and disappear ! "
 
Seajet said:
Nicho,

years ago I sold my 22, she was left ashore for 3-4 years while I played with another boat, then I bought her back.

It all happened very quickly and I hadn't time to organise harbour dues, but as that years' new stickers - sorry, plaques - were the same colour as the old one I thought I'd get away with it for a week or two.

Not so, intercepted by a gimlet eyed 1,000 year old harbour bod off Itchenor, when he looked at our plaque he could barely get the words out; " that's ...It's...fff four years out of date ! "

My crew said afterwards " I thought he was at least going to have a stroke, if not burn a hole right through his boat and disappear ! "
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Cruel......!
 
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