A bit heavy handed?

[nicho]

Bit of background. Our "new" boat arrived at Chichester Marina from it's previous Ramsgate base on 1st August, delivered by a professional skipper. For a variety of reasons, we could not stay, and after returning the skipper to catch his train, we returned home to the Midlands. We have not had a boat in Chichester for some 5 years

We returned to Chi last Monday pm (18th) to find a label attached to the boat, saying there was no Harbour Dues sticker on the boat, and to attend to the matter urgently!! Within the hour, I had nipped to the Harbour Office, paid the necessary dues, and the sticker was on the hull of the boat in the correct position.

Yesterday morning, I received the following rather heavy handed e-mail, threatening various fines and fees if the vessel is sighted again without a sticker!! Bit heavy handed, and rather unnecessary - I thought we were customers of the harbour, but obviously not! No doubt an administrative cock up, but nevertheless... It doesn't make much sense, in one sentence saying we had paid our dues, but in another assuming we had not, because there was no sticker displayed!!

I telephoned the Harbour Office, but got short shrift...."we can only act on the information received etc" I wrote to the HM, but I'm not expecting a reply......


NON-DISPLAY OF HARBOUR DUES PLAQUE


Although our records show that you have paid current harbour dues, our Patrol staff report that your vessel is afloat within harbour limits on the 18/08/14 without your plaque displayed.

As explained in our Scale of Charges your current year’s plaque must be displayed on your vessel, otherwise it shall be deemed that you have not paid your annual charge under Section 73 of the Chichester Harbour Conservancy Act 1971. Accordingly, under Section 75 of the Act, you may be liable for a penalty payment of three times the annual harbour dues.

Would you please ensure your plaque is displayed within 14 days. We do acknowledge that it can be difficult to get to your vessel frequently in which case we offer the service of affixing the plaque onto your vessel for you for a charge of £10.00. If you would like to take advantage of this service please return this letter with your plaque and your payment.

If your vessel should be sighted again without your plaque displayed we will have no alternative but to invoke the penalty, plus an administrative charge of £50.00. Your urgent attention to this matter is requested.

Thank you for your co-operation.

Yours sincerely

Richard Craven
Harbour Master
Chichester Harbour Conservancy
01243 512301

 

[snowleopard]

So nothing has changed in the time since I left Chichester harbour. First contact with their staff still seems to be a demand for money.

 

[theoldsalt]

It's quite clear in the Ts & Cs. "Harbour dues are deemed not to have been paid unless the plaque is displayed." and "The penalty for non-display of your harbour dues plaque is a three times penalty and / or the possibility of your vessel being impounded. Please Pay and Display".

Heavy handed maybe but yu pays yu money and takes yu choice (or not).

 

[longjohnsilver]

Is this plaque the same as the sticker? If so then you've every right to feel peeved. If not, then praps you need to get this plaque where it should be ASAP?

 

[nicho]

Oh, I agree, except their e-mail acknowledges I have paid!!

It's quite clear in the Ts & Cs. "Harbour dues are deemed not to have been paid unless the plaque is displayed." and "The penalty for non-display of your harbour dues plaque is a three times penalty and / or the possibility of your vessel being impounded. Please Pay and Display".

Heavy handed maybe but yu pays yu money and takes yu choice (or not).

 

[nicho]

I assume so, the "plaque" is a 2p sticker.

Is this plaque the same as the sticker? If so then you've every right to feel peeved. If not, then praps you need to get this plaque where it should be ASAP?

 

[prv]

Oh, I agree, except their e-mail acknowledges I have paid!!

Presumably they have a list of who has paid, and a list of whose boats have been seen without stickers. By comparing the two, they will divide the second list into two - those who have not paid, and those who have paid but not displayed. The former get an even ****tier email, and the latter get the email you received. This assumes that people have bought the sticker, but not got round to displaying it. The fact that in your case you bought the sticker after the boat was seen without one, and displayed the sticker immediately after buying it, will not be apparent in this process.

Given the assumed situation, I don't think the email is particularly heavy-handed. It gives a warning and second chance, which they're under no obligation to do, and offers a solution for those who clutter the place up with their boats while living away ( ). I think the wording is clear, polite, and firm, as it should be.

Try parking in a pay and display car-park without displaying your ticket and see how you get on there.

Pete

 

[Lakesailor]

Seems OTT, but up til October this year the same applies to your car tax disc. (Pedants feel free to point out it isn't car tax).
You pay the licence fee but you can be fined for not displaying it.

 

[theoldsalt]

What I don't understand, as never having visited Chichester, is why the marina doesn't collect the harbour dues and include it in the marina fees then pass it onto the harbour authority as is commonplace elsewhere. Can anyone enlighten me?

 

[Lakesailor]

If it's anything like here the two authorities have had a spat and won't co-operate.

 

[nicho]

What I don't understand, as never having visited Chichester, is why the marina doesn't collect the harbour dues and include it in the marina fees then pass it onto the harbour authority as is commonplace elsewhere. Can anyone enlighten me?

I believe they do that, but only for visitors not annual bertholders. As I understand it, the Hamble Marinas do add the harbour dues to the annual cost of a berth.

I may be overreacting to this e-mail, but I paid the dues at the earliest opportunity, and did not feel it was justified. I truly believe the harbour dues are necessary and worthwhile, so it's no form of protest, honest!! Anyway, I'm over it now - off out for a good meal with the lads!!

 

[prv]

I paid the dues at the earliest opportunity

Well, not really. You could have paid before bringing the boat round, ready to apply the sticker on arrival. You could have paid on the day it did arrive, and you could have paid a day or two after that and availed yourself of their £10 offer to apply the sticker for non-locals. I'm not saying you necessarily should have done, but to claim that two full weeks after arrival is the "earliest possible opportunity" is not really accurate, is it?

(I am assuming that it's possible to pay the dues by phone/post/Internet, but I'm pretty sure that twenty-five years ago my parents weren't driving down to some little office in person to buy the sticker for my Mirror dinghy, and if remote purchase was possible then then it surely is now.)

In any case, the harbour patrol doesn't know any of this, do they? They just know that it's the middle of August and here's a resident boat without a sticker, and put it on their list. A few days later a standard email goes out. They're not reacting to your situation personally.

Pete

 

[dom]

I may be overreacting to this e-mail, but I paid the dues at the earliest opportunity, and did not feel it was justified.

Their letter is fully justified; fully justified according to the prehistoric, pre-computer rules, which have in turn been designed by illogical, bureaucratic little twerps who have never heard about customer service, computers, or the notion of welcoming visitors.

 

[nicho]

Well, not really. You could have paid before bringing the boat round, ready to apply the sticker on arrival. You could have paid on the day it did arrive, and you could have paid a day or two after that and availed yourself of their £10 offer to apply the sticker for non-locals. I'm not saying you necessarily should have done, but to claim that two full weeks after arrival is the "earliest possible opportunity" is not really accurate, is it?

(I am assuming that it's possible to pay the dues by phone/post/Internet, but I'm pretty sure that twenty-five years ago my parents weren't driving down to some little office in person to buy the sticker for my Mirror dinghy, and if remote purchase was possible then then it surely is now.)

In any case, the harbour patrol doesn't know any of this, do they? They just know that it's the middle of August and here's a resident boat without a sticker, and put it on their list. A few days later a standard email goes out. They're not reacting to your situation personally.

Pete

Fair comment (I suppose!), but the dues were back dated to the 1st August, so I didn't get away with anything...!! Right, I've had enough of sailors, I'm off out with a bunch of fellow pilots to complain vociferously about the CAA, EASA et al!!

 

[Seajet]

It has always been the same in Chichester Harbour; I've been sailing there since a boy in 1970.

The harbour berks are very keen on collecting money - they even said if they came across any dinghy or windsurfer without a current sticker they would confiscate the rudder or rig !

After a universal reply along the lines of ' you and whose army ? ' they let that bright idea drop.

It should be noted that the job of Chichester Harbourmaster goes to ex services officers who couldn't tell a Centaur from a Contessa, and bow from stern is also doubtful but in the right circles they're good chaps.

I had hoped better from Richard - who I have spoken with - as he stepped in after the last ex-RN bod croaked, but apparently not so.

When I rang to tell him of the people digging up the 4,000 year old wadeway near my mooring, I rather hoped there might be more patrols, but instead I was told ' if you see anything give us a call ' leaving me as watchman; when the gits were digging again I thought I'd try it - no response.

Funnily enough I've always noted - and I've been there a lot longer than the present habour staff - that the channel marks from their base at Itchenor to the harbour entrance are well kept, while apparently the large part of the harbour to the West apparently doesn't exist, with perches & lights out, as a friend found to his cost coming back across the Channel exhausted, only to find the harbour lights out !

Chichester Harbour Conservancy need a serious rocket up their arse, and to start doing what they are handsomely paid for.

 

[jordanbasset]

Fair comment (I suppose!), but the dues were back dated to the 1st August, so I didn't get away with anything...!! Right, I've had enough of sailors, I'm off out with a bunch of fellow pilots to complain vociferously about the CAA, EASA et al!!

What a pleasant and reasonable response, I am surprised you have lasted so long here
You are supposed to go of in a hissy fit slagging off all those that disagree with you. This then gives others the opportunity to either slag you off or the people disagreeing with you. This in turn allows others to accuse people of getting their friends to gang up on them Before you know it 8 pages have gone by and every one has forgotten what the thread was about anyway

 

[nicho]

What a pleasant and reasonable response, I am surprised you have lasted so long here
You are supposed to go of in a hissy fit slagging off all those that disagree with you. This then gives others the opportunity to either slag you off or the people disagreeing with you. This in turn allows others to accuse people of getting their friends to gang up on them Before you know it 8 pages have gone by and every one has forgotten what the thread was about anyway

Ah!! Got it....I've been away from the forum for three years, and forgot the rules. I'll change!

 

[[70521]]

Did you contact the HM at any time, by any means, in the time you were away from your boat? If not then they are more than justify in their position.

 

[Stoshak]

Seajet

Quote
It should be noted that the job of Chichester Harbourmaster goes to ex services officers who couldn't tell a Centaur from a Contessa, and bow from stern is also doubtful but in the right circles they're good chaps.

I had hoped better from Richard - who I have spoken with - as he stepped in after the last ex-RN bod croaked, but apparently not so.

The 'ex-RN bod who croaked' was John Davis who died whilst racing in the harbour. He was actually ex- Royal Marines, and Emsworth church was full to overflowing in an outpouring of popular grief at his funeral. He was a true gentleman who did much for the Harbour, including staunch defence of East Head. The racing mark off East Head is named after him.

I have always been favourably impressed by the Conservancy staff, especially Sid, of course.

So once again we find ourselves at odds.

 

[Seajet]

Good on Sid;

are you ex-RN or Itchenor based by any chance ?

If you are going to quote me, at least have the balls to say everything I have said.