90/180 rule and Andora

[John100156]

Tricky one this!

Helping a friend out last month and due to a 2 day wait for a weather slot, has resulted in me (not SWMBO) possibly exceeding the 90/180 rule should I return by pre-booked ferry on 30 September, by you guessed it: two days (92/180)

I assume this could be an issue at Passport/Border Control and I have no great desire to chance breaking the law which effectively I would be doing.

So my question is: If we take a trip to Andora for 3 nights (always wanted to visit) which is out of the EU/Schengen but I am not sure stamps passports on entry/exit. Would this suffice to bring me back to 90/180.

I have read conflicting arguments

Otherwise it’s any earlier ferry back

 

[Hurricane]

As you say - a tricky one.
The way that Spanish passport controls seem to be managed, I guess nobody will know (or care) - until they introduce the ETIAS system etc.
But you never know.
Andorra is an interesting idea but why not just change your return ferry date?
Brittany Ferries have a flexible rebooking service - even if you didn't buy the flexible option.

Whenever I've been through the Spanish/French border, there doesn't seem to be a passport control.
So if you were going to do the Andorra thing, it would only be any use if you got your passports stamped (which would probably be a load of hassle).
For example, if you arrive by sea into Sant Carles as your first port of call, you have to go to Tarragona to get your passports stamped which I would think is lots of hassle.

Does this mean less time to get that Raspberry Pi AIS project working!!

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Or you could fly to the uk for a few days. Definitely be passported out and in again that way.

 

[Hurricane]

Or you could fly to the uk for a few days. Definitely be passported out and in again that way.

Problem with that approach - he won't be buying the beers whilst he is away.

 

[John100156]

Problem is we have guests arriving mid and at end of Sept. Earlier ferry would mean only one day to shut down the boat due to timetable but we are considering that (no time for RPi yet.... all bits in box though...).

Looked into flights but a PIA just for 3 nights.....

I could take a chance with Andora, (never been there and wanted to go) hotels record PP details so may help if challenged - decisions, decisions...

 

[Sticky Fingers]

It’s a right PITA. Hopefully you will get a solution

 

[John100156]

Yeah I just re-booked the ferry to 26th - didn't cost me anything, except loss of Commodore Lounge tickets, the outside cabin and therefore the love of a woman I've been married to for 47 years this week - still only a one night crossing.....!

 

[John100156]

I will take some ear plugs.....

 

[DavidJ]

Yeah I just re-booked the ferry to 26th - didn't cost me anything, except loss of Commodore Lounge tickets, the outside cabin and therefore the love of a woman I've been married to for 47 years this week - still only a one night crossing.....!

Congratulations on 47 years
We have clocked up 49 today
SWMBO has gone off boating…..might not make 50

 

[Alicatt]

Last time I was in Andorra, there was no border control, just a queue to get in, no one was checking that particular day. that was in August 2017.

 

[Portofino]

Last time I was in Andorra, there was no border control, just a queue to get in, no one was checking that particular day. that was in August 2017.

That’s the agro , he needs stamping out of the EU should he have gone down that route .Which wisely he isn’t .

EU borders leak like sieve .But in this case he’s requiring them working fully functioning …….for the stamp(s) .

 

[ashtead]

If you go to a ferry port and plan to depart by private boat having been stamped in as a ferry passenger then only way seems to walk though the car lane to get an exit stamp (unless they have actually sorted this out now) based on experiences in France - presumably you could walk into Gib to collect an exit stamp and then be free to voyage wherever?

 

[DavidJ]

- presumably you could walk into Gib to collect an exit stamp and then be free to voyage wherever?

I await more informed answers but I think Gibraltar has some kind of transit status so can’t be used to pop in and out to collect 90/180 days

 

[petem]

A quick bit of Googling says that Andorra border guards will stamp your passport if you ask them.

If you're not already aware, partial days spent in Schengen count towards the 90 days. So a 7 night holiday means 8 nights in Schengen,

 

[Daydream believer]

If you're not already aware, partial days spent in Schengen count towards the 90 days. So a 7 night holiday means 8 nights in Schengen,

This calculator might give an accurate check on days spent. It may be that you do actually have more, or less days, taking into account the comment in the quote above. I suggest that you read the users guide as well
Schengan calculator
When I was in |Dieppe last week I went & had my passport stamped saying I was leaving that day. I actually stayed 2 days longer due to ill health but no body came to check. I nearly stopped at Boulogne on the way back to Dover & would have given the same excuse. On the way to Dieppe I was in Boulogne for 3 days & saw no officials. I rolled my ensign around the pole

 

[Hurricane]

I await more informed answers but I think Gibraltar has some kind of transit status so can’t be used to pop in and out to collect 90/180 days

As far as I understand it, immediately after Brexit, Gibraltar had to be rushed into Schengen so that people who worked either side of the border could continue to do so.
I think that means that Gibraltar is in Schengen but I may be wrong.
If so, days in Gibraltar would count to your 90/180.

Again, as I understand it, Gibraltar does remain outside the EU so if you are running a TA 18 month scheme, you should be able to reset the 18 months in Gib - but I'm not an expert.

 

[PeterV]

My son lives in Andorra. You can get a stamp in and out but you do need to ask for it.

 

[DAW]

As far as I understand it, immediately after Brexit, Gibraltar had to be rushed into Schengen so that people who worked either side of the border could continue to do so.
I think that means that Gibraltar is in Schengen but I may be wrong.
If so, days in Gibraltar would count to your 90/180.

Again, as I understand it, Gibraltar does remain outside the EU so if you are running a TA 18 month scheme, you should be able to reset the 18 months in Gib - but I'm not an expert.

So far as I know Gibraltar is not part of Schengen. There was a preliminary agreement on its possible membership, but I think talks have ground to a halt because of disagreements over which agencids should be responsible for controlling border access into Schengen territory.

Following Brexit, there were various agreements in place between Spain and Gibraltar regarding movement of people between the two countries, and in particular for cross-border employees, but these were intended to be temporary and are in the process of unravelling because of intransigence on both sides.

It’s perhaps worth mentioning that similar to the situation that exists with US immigration and the 90-day visitor’s visa, the Schengen rules provide for the possibility that a short departure from the Schengen area followed by immediate return can be disregarded if it’s sole or main purpose is to reset the clock on physical presence.

 

[petem]

So far as I know Gibraltar is not part of Schengen. There was a preliminary agreement on its possible membership, but I think talks have ground to a halt because of disagreements over which agencids should be responsible for controlling border access into Schengen territory.

Following Brexit, there were various agreements in place between Spain and Gibraltar regarding movement of people between the two countries, and in particular for cross-border employees, but these were intended to be temporary and are in the process of unravelling because of intransigence on both sides.

It’s perhaps worth mentioning that similar to the situation that exists with US immigration and the 90-day visitor’s visa, the Schengen rules provide for the possibility that a short departure from the Schengen area followed by immediate return can be disregarded if it’s sole or main purpose is to reset the clock on physical presence.

I don't understand your last point. The 90/180 days is rolling so there's no clock to reset.

 

[DAW]

I don't understand your last point. The 90/180 days is rolling so there's no clock to reset.

Apologies, I should have said the rules of some countries in Schengen rather than the Schengen rules themselves. I agree that for the purposes of Schengen the 90/180 days is a rolling test based on presence. My point was that some countries have the power in their national legislation to disregard short departures for the purpose of their own residency tests and long-stay visa requirements.