3rd year still learning to sail

[Rhylsailer99]

Sailing from Red Wharf Bay to Bangor the wind picked up to around 20mph gusting more and I was close hauled and reefed the main sail.
I seemed to struggle to sail as I was against the tide and the sea was so lumpy I kept getting knocked off course. Was i doing something wrong or was it just the wind and tide against me making it difficult the boat is a cobra 850 bilge keel. At times the bow was going under water as the boat was slamming up and down.

made it to Porth Penrhyn finally.

 

[Robin]

Upwind against the tide, bilge keels and lumpy seas? Dead horse flogging comes to mind, If you really really had to make the trip, maybe use reefed main, no headsail and motorsail.

edited to add:-
PS were you also towing the dinghy?

 

[Rhylsailer99]

Upwind against the tide, bilge keels and lumpy seas? Dead horse flogging comes to mind, If you really really had to make the trip, maybe use reefed main, no headsail and motorsail.

edited to add:-
PS were you also towing the dinghy?

Yes i was towing the dinghy. Next year i hope to get a smaller lighter dinghy as at 2.6m its too heavy to man handle on my own , does towing the dinghy slow the boat down a lot?
I did give up in the end and motor sailed motor sailing last option then once i got in the straits it was a nice easy sail.

 

[geem]

Yes i was towing the dinghy. Next year i hope to get a smaller lighter dinghy as at 2.6m its too heavy to man handle on my own , does towing the dinghy slow the boat down a lot?
I did give up in the end and motor sailed motor sailing last option then once i got in the straits it was a nice easy sail.

It depends on the dinghy. Our 9ft rib was like towing a drogue. Our current large hard dinghy has no noticeable drag. Most inflatables have a large wetted area so are likely to create a fair bit of resistance.
It sounds like you really did have everything against you

 

[trondhindenes]

I didn't realize the effect of tides when clouse hauled until I was lucky enough to have the tide with me while tacking out of a fjord. I can usually do 45 degrees (which means that my track has a 90-degree bend on each tack) but with a knot or two of tides going with me, my tacking angles were closer to 110-120 degrees.

...which also means that (unfortunately for you) it doesn't take much tide against to severly impact your ability to make headway.

 

[Robin]

The dinghy drag would knock quite a bit of speed off plus watching out for it taking off and flying free would ruin concentration on weaving a best pass through the lumpy sea. could you not put dinghy on foredeck or coachroof . Try holding the dinghy painter underway to feel the amount of drag pull (but leave it cleated )

shortening the dinghy painter to haul the dinghy up partially out of the water onto the transom/pushpit might help a bit

 

[The Q]

Also reefing the main, did you reef the Jib?, if not you've upset the balance of the boat and the jib will be knocking you lower than your normal course.

 

[johnalison]

As said, upwind in a small bilge-keeler is on a hiding to nothing. The best you can do is sail moderately, full-and-bye, and stick it out if motor-sailing doesn’t appeal. In my 34 I can do a VMG of about 4.5 kn in ideal conditions. In a smaller boat with limitations it would be more like 2.5, and against the tide of 1.5 kn say, how long is it going to take to get anywhere?

 

[Stemar]

My wife would say that what you did wrong was being out there.

OK, it was slow and uncomfortable, and you ended up motorsailing, but you coped, and learned something. You learned that you can do it, and how best to do it, and the boat can cope with the conditions, but that it's hard work. All good things to know.

There are boats that size that will go well to windward in those conditions, but few of them have bilge keels. As for the dinghy, I don't see you having room to store it on deck inflated, so you have the choice of accepting the drag , which you can minimise by taking the OB off and keeping it on board - a transom bracket that allows it to be emergency power for the boat and keeps it out of the way would be ideal, or deflating it and putting it on the foredeck, where it will be in the way if you have to go forward to anchor. As Robin says, pulling it up tight may help, or it may do better on a longer line. We tow ours, and a longer line seems to suit.

 

[peteK]

Done that trip too and from Red wharf bay many a time from Bangor,the stretch from Table mountain too Puffin sound can be lumpy due to the waves rebounding off the sheer cliffs but as already been said motor sailing with just the main is the best solution.

 

[dunedin]

3 years sailing and still learning is a positive. I am 50 years sailing and still learning (aka still making mistakes).

One learning is, whenever possible, not to fight against nature but go with it - or, as one of our favourite phrases, “it’s all about the angles”.
Going upwind against the tide can be fun for a short distance in an efficient (ie performance oriented) boat with good sails on a nice sunny day. Otherwise choose another direction or another day Easier for the retired than those needing to get back to work on Monday.

Overall a successful outcome. No harm done and gained more useful experience.

 

[Stemar]

3 years sailing and still learning is a positive. I am 50 years sailing and still learning (aka still making mistakes).

Anyone who isn't still learning, no matter how long they've been at isn't someone I want to sail with

 

[RupertW]

As said, upwind in a small bilge-keeler is on a hiding to nothing. The best you can do is sail moderately, full-and-bye, and stick it out if motor-sailing doesn’t appeal. In my 34 I can do a VMG of about 4.5 kn in ideal conditions. In a smaller boat with limitations it would be more like 2.5, and against the tide of 1.5 kn say, how long is it going to take to get anywhere?

I agree. Even with a small performance oriented boat where I could make headway upwind and tide I still stuck to the practice of trying to time sails for slacks and positive tides. Even for just 10 miles the difference between going upwind with VMG of 3 knots with a 2 knot tide at a net 5 knots compared to a net 1 knot makes for a miserable or fun sail.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Going on our own experience, sometimes ypu might be better off not making so much ground. We being west solent based, we have a fair bit of tidal experience. At least with the tide against you the water is a bit smoother as a rule. We can get a decent vmg if it’s rough, but the spray will be coming aft like bullets, the boat will be nearly airborne, the toilet unusable (we reef if oh needs a wee). Back off, it‘s meant to be fun, is what we have learned.

 

[Rhylsailer99]

Looking back I should have sailed in the opposite direction and had a chill out somewhere else, then sailed to where I wanted to go once the tide had turned.
Ive now bought Jack stays and a safety line as my balance is not 100% from a broken leg injury many years ago, and my boat defo needs some work to make reefing easier. I found reefing solo sailing tricky when its really needed with wind howling in a lumpy sea.

 

[Stemar]

Looking back I should have sailed in the opposite direction and had a chill out somewhere else, then sailed to where I wanted to go once the tide had turned.
Ive now bought Jack stays and a safety line as my balance is not 100% from a broken leg injury many years ago, and my boat defo needs some work to make reefing easier. I found reefing solo sailing tricky when its really needed with wind howling in a lumpy sea.

Lines aft to the cockpit is a simple way to simplify reefing. It doesn't have to be a complicated system - a few (good quality ball bearing) blocks and a bit of string. I'd try to spend on clutches, because they make life so much easier, but you could get away with cleats or jammers if the budget just won't stretch that far

 

[Topcat47]

The Cobra isn't good close to the wind, it's better on a reach. Wind over tide makes it worse but at least you'd be making some way as the tide would be pushing you in the right direction. If it's really lumpy the diesel is your friend, pack the sails away. Trying to sail upwind and uptide you're onto a hiding to nothing.

The other trick is always reef early. My boat doesn't ever make more than 5 knots to windward but it will do it just as easily with a reef in the main, two if the wind's a bit stiff, and it's more comfortable when the boat's not on its side.

Finally, plan ahead. Yes the best laid plans etc etc but always try to have an alternative up your sleeve. Everyone eventually gets caught out on a passage sometime, but you need to be flexible when out on a daysail. If the wind and /or tide are a bit iffy, go somewhere else or turn back early.

 

[LadyInBed]

Looking back I should have sailed in the opposite direction

Yes, I reserve beating as a last resort when caught out.
If wanting to get from A to B and it's into the wind, I either wait for the wind to change or look for somewhere else to go.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Yes, I reserve beating as a last resort when caught out.
If wanting to get from A to B and it's into the wind, I either wait for the wind to change or look for somewhere else to go.

We don’t mind a beat. All day might change my mind I guess, but we beat back from Poole to Cowes into a F5 ENE wind without major issue a few weeks ago. Big seas change things though. It was unpleasant for 20 mins around Christchurch ledge, I wouldnt like that all the way. It can be a serious test of boat, equipment and crew.

 

[Laysula]

Sailing is meant to be enjoyed. There are no medals for cruisers, you were right in post 15 .