Would you take a Bavaria 32 across the Atlantic

Talulah said:
Accepted. I can't see light condition failures being much different between different builders.
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The average Ben/Jen/Bav school boat isn't exactly falling apart left, right and centre in the relatively heavy conditions they are often sailed in either. Given that they're also often sailed badly, which ought to increase the likelihood of failures, it's quite surprising how well they cope really.
 
Simondjuk said:
The average Ben/Jen/Bav school boat isn't exactly falling apart left, right and centre in the relatively heavy conditions they are often sailed in either. Given that they're also often sailed badly, which ought to increase the likelihood of failures, it's quite surprising how well they cope really.
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I agree but you have to admit that the two failures,both on Benetaux,one of the keel attachment and another of a bulkhead that broke should be investigated and addressed.Both resulted in the loss of the boats.Quite serious.
 
Our first light boat was a Dufour 36 which we put on charter with Hamble School of Yachting. I was surprised to see the F7 & F8 condition that it went out in for YM courses and often to Belgium for mile building.

After 3yrs we sold her and it was re-named Classic Dream. I saw her last year in the Solent still out on charter some 16yrs later. Obviously no one has told this lightly built Dufour not to be so reliable and robust! Such twaddle spouted on here at times!!

Our next boat a Dufour 38 which we sailed to Spain is still on charter some 13yrs later.
 
30boat said:
I agree but you have to admit that the two failures,both on Benetaux,one of the keel attachment and another of a bulkhead that broke should be investigated and addressed.Both resulted in the loss of the boats.Quite serious.
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All failures should be investigated but also put in context. For every HR /Najad/Malo there are probable 10,000 Ben/Bav/Jens on the water. Just do a count at your marina then add the 1000s on charter in Greece/Turkey etc

On previous threads Robin has quoted authoratively on many boats that have experienced keel problems
 
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Simondjuk said:
On the subject of Halberg Rassys and the issue of lightweight boats, it might surprise you to know that if you take the ballast out of the equation, my boat, a Bavaria, and one of the similar sized HR (the HR has approaching 500kg more ballast, which whilst no bad thing, has no bearing over the lightweight structure issue), my boat is actually heavier foot for foot. I imagine the interior fit out in the HR weighs more than that in my boat, and the HR is generally fitted with a larger, heavier engine, so in terms of the hull and deck construction, which is the more lightweight boat?
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I've never bought the ludicrous idea that heavier = stronger, but that's still interesting.
 
30boat said:
I agree but you have to admit that the two failures,both on Benetaux,one of the keel attachment and another of a bulkhead that broke should be investigated and addressed.Both resulted in the loss of the boats.Quite serious.
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The keel issue I'd prefer not to speculate on. The 40.7 has a long history of hard racing and I've not heard of other keel issues. The big Ben with the bulkhead issue, I have no information on, but if it's a very new model, I'd tend to agree that what I've seen points to poor build quality throughout.
 
toad_oftoadhall said:
I've never bought the ludicrous idea that heavier = stronger, but that's still interesting.
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Agreed, there is little connection between weight and strength. Nonetheless the repeated objection to mass produced boats is based around the term 'lightweight', as if in and of itself that must surely make for an unseaworthy boat.
 
sailorman said:
Joints due to the length of anodising tanks not the actual extrusion.
longer lengths can be done in Germany than UK
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Thanks, that makes sense. I guess once the spar leaves the die, you can just keep it on coming until you run out of aluminium, trestles to support it, or clear space to send it in to.

I guess the factors limiting length then become anodising, as you mention, and transport.
 
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Sailfree said:
I don't own a Bavaria but get fed up with the number of Bavaria bashers that give no allowance for the success of the Bavariai designs that complete millions of miles each year as charter boats.
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Which was why I brought up the recent Beneteau failures, mass produced boats are mass produced boats you won't see much difference in the way the hull is laid up.

I don't have any worries about Beneteaus, there's just a lot of them.
 
These threads always make me laugh. "They don't make 'em like they used to..." No, because the people who did have all gone bust!
 
Simondjuk said:
The Bavaria Match you mention had an inherent design flaw, which was indeed a cock up on Bavaria's part, but had also suffered a previous grounding. The cumulative effect of the two resulted in the loss of the keel. Sister ships were modified, as stated by another poster.
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The grounding was a red herring by Bavaria in a knee-jerk, damage-limitation press release too quickly publicised before any proper investigation.

I was in the area in my own boat at the same time so took an interest in the ongoing proceedings and subsequent developments. I followed the news and reports, especially by the German yachting press who reported in depth, including the photographs of the boat and of the shoddy keel-bolt fixations of the sister-ships publicised by the Hungarian sailing association that participated in the event and whose member lost his life.

But, as you allude, that Bavaria Match class yacht, built to an extremely light specification for performance, had, even then, absolutely nothing in common with the normal cruising craft built by Bavaria.
 
Barnac1e said:
The grounding was a red herring by Bavaria in a knee-jerk, damage-limitation press release too quickly publicised before any proper investigation.

I was in the area in my own boat at the same time so took an interest in the ongoing proceedings and subsequent developments. I followed the news and reports, especially by the German yachting press who reported in depth, including the photographs of the boat and of the shoddy keel-bolt fixations of the sister-ships publicised by the Hungarian sailing association that participated in the event and whose member lost his life.

But, as you allude, that Bavaria Match class yacht, built to an extremely light specification for performance, had, even then, absolutely nothing in common with the normal cruising craft built by Bavaria.
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You may well be right that previous grounding damage was never proven, especially since I seem to recall that the keel itself was never recovered. It's a long time ago and my memory is hazy on the detail, so I may be leading myself to false conclusions based on the recollection that on inspection, 14 of the 19 Match 42s in the fleet belonging to the accident boat's charter company displayed varying degrees of impact damage on their keels.

As I said before, I'm not defending Bavaria or J&J, they clearly got it very wrong on the Match 42. I just had in mind that the keels were bad, but needed a bit of a whack before they simply fell off.
 
Simondjuk said:
As I said before, I'm not defending Bavaria or J&J, they clearly got it very wrong on the Match 42. I just had in mind that the keels were bad, but needed a bit of a whack before they simply fell off.
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The boat was not a J&J design but Doug Peterson. Bavaria's attempt to compete with the First range of racer/cruisers.
 
> "They don't make 'em like they used to..." No, because the people who did have all gone bust!

Err, no they haven't, Bowman for example. There will always be companies like Bowman for long distance sailors.
 
KellysEye said:
> "They don't make 'em like they used to..." No, because the people who did have all gone bust!

Err, no they haven't, Bowman for example. There will always be companies like Bowman for long distance sailors.
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Bowman have gone bust at least once to my certain knowledge, and i am almost certain it happened at least one other time........
 
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