34 Foot boat with twin wheels?

[pvb]

Oh dear, you're starting to sound like one of those stereotypical owners of a new, floppy, creaky, fat arsed boat, oblivious to the realities of modern cost cutting manufacturing, yearning for a boat that will hold its value.

You're obviously in denial. My newish AWB doesn't flex (and the rig is set up very tight). The doors close perfectly. The decks are solid, with no bounce. The cabin soles fit perfectly, like the rest of the interior, and they don't creak at all. There's nothing which I'd describe as flimsy. There are no leaks, no cracks, no flaws. And, although it's early days, nothing has gone wrong, which is a stark contrast to the 3 new Westerly boats I bought, back in the heyday of British boatbuilding. If you're ever visiting the East Coast, please feel free to come and see for yourself - you may be very surprised.

 

[dom]

You're obviously in denial. My newish AWB doesn't flex (and the rig is set up very tight). The doors close perfectly. The decks are solid, with no bounce. The cabin soles fit perfectly, like the rest of the interior, and they don't creak at all. There's nothing which I'd describe as flimsy.

How do you think a new fangled F-22 Raptor would get on against a Spitfire LF Mk IX in a serious full-on dogfight on a cloudy day over Southern England?

As it happens Lockheed Martin is too afraid to find out!

 

[prv]

You're obviously in denial. My newish AWB doesn't flex (and the rig is set up very tight). The doors close perfectly. The decks are solid, with no bounce. The cabin soles fit perfectly, like the rest of the interior, and they don't creak at all. There's nothing which I'd describe as flimsy.

Having just spent a week on a chartered AWB, I'd have to second this. The layout wouldn't have been my choice for UK sailing (though pretty well suited to its intended use in the Med) but the construction had stood up very well to six years of constant week-in, week-out use by people with no reason to be over-careful, and indifferent maintenance squeezed into the half-days between them. I noticed one piece of laminate edging that was parting company from the edge of a sole board (only visible when lifting the adjacent board to access the water tanks, and a five-minute job to fix if anyone had bothered) and otherwise the interior was more or less as-new. No creaking, groaning, or apparent movement below in the force 6 we had on the last day either.

Pete

 

[prv]

How do you think a new fangled F-22 Raptor would get on against a Spitfire LF Mk IX in a serious full-on dogfight on a cloudy day over Southern England?

Blown it up with a missile from below the horizon before the Spitfire even knew it was there

Pete

 

[dom]

Blown it up with a missile from below the horizon before the Spitfire even knew it was there

Pete

Oops, I forgot about the two-stage, fire and forget, IR/radar-guided, all-weather, AIM-120 AMRAAM. Well there's progress for you!

Edit: sorry Wully ...I think they're right :sorrow::sorrow::sorrow:

 

[Quandary]

Some of the small twin wheel boats are incredibly broad at the back, I suppose they have to be or the twin wheels would look silly, I suppose the modern habit of always motoring to windward means they will never be heeled much so that shape will work fine for today's customer. The thing I really find hard to like is the switch from wood and veneers internally to printed melamine which still is made to look vaguely like wood, it is obviously kinder to the the environment than cutting down trees but then why print it with 'wood' patterns, if it ain't wood why try to make it look like it. Or if they must try surely with today's technology they could manage a convincing imitation.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

... hard to like is the switch from wood and veneers internally to printed melamine which still is made to look vaguely like wood, it is obviously kinder to the the environment than cutting down trees but then why print it with 'wood' patterns, if it ain't wood why try to make it look like it. Or if they must try surely with today's technology they could manage a convincing imitation.

Now that I do agree with. Latest small/medium Jeanneaus a good example, no doubt others too... not appealing. I'd rather have something that was obviously a manmade board.

 

[dunedin]

Some of the small twin wheel boats are incredibly broad at the back, I suppose they have to be or the twin wheels would look silly, I suppose the modern habit of always motoring to windward means they will never be heeled much so that shape will work fine for today's customer. The thing I really find hard to like is the switch from wood and veneers internally to printed melamine which still is made to look vaguely like wood, it is obviously kinder to the the environment than cutting down trees but then why print it with 'wood' patterns, if it ain't wood why try to make it look like it. Or if they must try surely with today's technology they could manage a convincing imitation.

That's where the likes of Arcona, HR and XC come into the equation for a nice tactile interior - but at a (big) price differential for a similar practical function. But life is not just about practical, fun and luxury also feature (cue an HR and Porsche re-run)

 

[pvb]

The thing I really find hard to like is the switch from wood and veneers internally to printed melamine which still is made to look vaguely like wood, it is obviously kinder to the the environment than cutting down trees but then why print it with 'wood' patterns, if it ain't wood why try to make it look like it.

I imagine lots of people have printed laminate "wood finish" materials in their kitchens, why not in their boats?

 

[Tranona]

Oh dear, you're starting to sound like one of those stereotypical owners of a new, floppy, creaky, fat arsed boat, oblivious to the realities of modern cost cutting manufacturing, yearning for a boat that will hold its value.

You really do seem to be in love with your imagination, rather than listening to people who own such boats. Simply do not recognise anything you say about today's boats.

Have owned two from new, both faultless when delivered and the first one was a hard used charter boat for 7 seasons. Nothing of significance broke or wore out apart from the windlass and the saildrive. Not surprising given the amount of use they got in the hands of often inexperienced people.

There is a reason why charter companies buy these boats and put them to greater use in the first 6 years or so than you will ever do in your boat in a lifetime. They stand up extremely well and are popular as used boat buys afterwards, as a number of people on this forum will testify.

Do you seriously think that people like pvb and me, both with many years experience and multiple boat ownership are prepared to spend over £100k of our own money on substandard products?

 

[maby]

I imagine lots of people have printed laminate "wood finish" materials in their kitchens, why not in their boats?

The issue may be the relative difficulty of refitting a boat vs. the difficulty of refitting a kitchen. I look around our (nearly new) Beneteau trying to imagine how it will be looking in twenty years time. My bet is that it will be looking pretty tatty by then and most of the surfaces will not respond to a light sanding and a coat of varnish. The units in my kitchen are looking tired but they are just prefabricated units bolted to the floor and walls - an experienced fitter would have the whole lot replaced in little more than a day. Refitting the boat will be a far more specialist (and more expensive) job when it comes.

 

[Tranona]

Some of the small twin wheel boats are incredibly broad at the back, I suppose they have to be or the twin wheels would look silly, I suppose the modern habit of always motoring to windward means they will never be heeled much so that shape will work fine for today's customer. The thing I really find hard to like is the switch from wood and veneers internally to printed melamine which still is made to look vaguely like wood, it is obviously kinder to the the environment than cutting down trees but then why print it with 'wood' patterns, if it ain't wood why try to make it look like it. Or if they must try surely with today's technology they could manage a convincing imitation.

Lots of very real wood in here!

While some wide sterned boats can be a bit of a handful when heeled, they are not all like that - and certainly mine is not, unlike the earlier design that I had. One of the reasons for choosing this boat rather than buying a cheaper older boat was greater stability, good directional tracking and lack of heel (comparatively).

 

[Deleted member 36384]

.... Refitting the boat will be a far more specialist (and more expensive) job when it comes.

I don't think it will be, in fact I think it may be very low cost compared to all wood interiors, especially if it is just a tart up job. Template making and cutting is very easy these days with computers. I reckon when the time comes it will quite easy to obtain a glue on material. Even skimming off the old material will be easy with the correct tool. I watched the fitters building the Corian tops for my kitchen and they used milling heads on routers to take an even layer right off the top. If there is a market then someone will come up with a cost effective solution. Anything structural will require the same set of skills today for fitting out older boats. I have just had a section of bulkhead replaced, made from 30 mm ply, it simply involved cutting out the damaged section, shaping the new section and securing in place with epoxy and FRP as appropriate. The builder did not have to dismantle beyond removing shelves. I would be concerned about keels on modern yachts in the distant future but that has been done to death on here and is it any different from keels on current MABs, not really.

 

[wully1]

You really do seem to be in love with your imagination, rather than listening to people who own such boats. Simply do not recognise anything you say about today's boats.

Have owned two from new, both faultless when delivered and the first one was a hard used charter boat for 7 seasons. Nothing of significance broke or wore out apart from the windlass and the saildrive. Not surprising given the amount of use they got in the hands of often inexperienced people.

There is a reason why charter companies buy these boats and put them to greater use in the first 6 years or so than you will ever do in your boat in a lifetime. They stand up extremely well and are popular as used boat buys afterwards, as a number of people on this forum will testify.

Do you seriously think that people like pvb and me, both with many years experience and multiple boat ownership are prepared to spend over £100k of our own money on substandard products?

're sale value'......... 'Quality' boats hold it, bendy Bavs don't. There is a reason for this.

on the' Listening to people who own such boats note' Really? Why would I listen to you when I can see the actual boats and compare?
Maybe if I actually sailed them I might re consider but doubt it. Besides they don't build what I need and want. I don't want a floating cottage in the med.

On on the spending over £100 k of you own money on what I consider a caravan with a mast sticking out the top, go ahead, it's your dosh to spend but yes, I do think you've spent it on a sub standard product.

BTW, This is the Internet , I don't even believe what I write here never mind what some other opinionated total stranger writes.

 

[Quandary]

Lots of very real wood in here!

.

The drawing in the wooden frame certainly cheers it up a lot.

 

[pvb]

BTW, This is the Internet , I don't even believe what I write here.....

Many a true word....

 

[bitbaltic]

Lots of very real wood in here!

While some wide sterned boats can be a bit of a handful when heeled, they are not all like that - and certainly mine is not, unlike the earlier design that I had. One of the reasons for choosing this boat rather than buying a cheaper older boat was greater stability, good directional tracking and lack of heel (comparatively).

Now I am completely agnostic about bavarias, but I can't see any handholds in that pic, and are the edges of that compression post actually square?

It's a good thing it doesn't heel much because that pic makes it look like a death trap down below if you are offshore with it on a dark and stormy night.....

 

[maby]

Now I am completely agnostic about bavarias, but I can't see any handholds in that pic, and are the edges of that compression post actually square?

It's a good thing it doesn't heel much because that pic makes it look like a death trap down below if you are offshore with it on a dark and stormy night.....

But the point is that we don't go out on stormy nights - or days for that matter. I can't speak for others, but I have no problem admitting that our AWB is a "caravan with a mast sticking out" - that is what it was bought for and how it is used... It is our floating cottage by the sea that can weigh anchor and move if we get fed up with the neighbours or bored with the view...

We have no handholds to speak of, but we have a lounge large enough to host a decent dinner party!

 

[pvb]

Now I am completely agnostic about bavarias, but I can't see any handholds in that pic, and are the edges of that compression post actually square?

There's a big sturdy table just out of shot which allows fairly secure movement.

 

[prv]

that pic makes it look like a death trap down below if you are offshore with it on a dark and stormy night.....

I think Tranona's days of dark and stormy nights offshore are long gone, and why not?

People mock 4x4s that never see more than the schoolrun and the Waitrose car-park, yet somehow buying anything less than a dedicated deep-sea voyager to make day cruises between South Coast marinas is seen as foolish, irresponsible, and being a big wuss?

Pete