30 footer with twin wheels?

[wully1]

Why?

Just saw a photo of a (new?)30 ft Beneteau with twin wheels and open transom that you be standing very close to when steering.

Whats wrong with a tiller on a boat like that? - thinking ’RM1050‘...

 

[Praxinoscope]

Think of all the additional linkage mechanism two wheels would need waiting to go wrong, a friend has a Sadler 29 with wheel steering, it always seems too complex and space consuming on a smaller boat.

 

[Concerto]

It is a fashion statement. Look at me with my new yacht with twin wheels. I always think tillers are better under about 33ft long, much less complicated than a wheel but do confuse newbies used to driving a car.

 

[doug748]

One of these maybe:



Big new small yacht: Beneteau Oceanis 30.1 tested - Practical Boat Owner

Fashion mostly but it does let folk get to the back for swimming and tiller extensions are not the sort of thing that attract new sailors who have chartering experience. I am sure Beneteau are well aware of this

I sailed alongside one of these last season and it was going very well. Similar maximum beam to a Contessa 32 but triangular shaped.

.

 

[Tranona]

Customer preference. In this size range many builders in the past have offered tillers and wheels as an option and almost every customer chose wheel. also once you have sailed a wide boat like this you understand why twin wheels are better. The added complication is less when the boat has twin rudders.

 

[TSB240]

Well having just moved to my first boat with a wheel . I am very pleased by the space in the cockpit for crew to sit in comfort.

It is no longer swept by the tiller allowing guests to enjoy the experience without need to avoid a poking when skipper makes rapid unplanned course changes.

Not having a traveller to bang your chins on also helps!

I was amazed by the number of potential purchasers of my old 30 foot hanse that rejected it because it was tiller rather than wheel steered.

I do miss the instant response and feel of a tiller but this is really only necessary in a racing orientated environment.

 

[ithet]

The advantage I found with twin wheel is that when the crew in front of your helm chunders up, one can casually step across to the far helm position.

 

[flaming]

Fashion mostly but it does let folk get to the back for swimming and tiller extensions are not the sort of thing that attract new sailors who have chartering experience. I am sure Beneteau are well aware of this

I sailed alongside one of these last season and it was going very well. Similar maximum beam to a Contessa 32 but triangular shaped.

.

It's not really fashion. Once you have a wide beam your options are generally a tiller or twin wheels. A single wheel does not allow the helm to sit to windward and see the sails properly unless it's absolutely massive.

The tiller can be a good option, but does tend to fill a lot of cockpit, and also brings the helm quite a long way forward in the boat.

In a small boat designed for cruising this is not especially desirable as this does not leave much cockpit left for other crew to relax in, especially if the cockpit is relatively modest to allow for a decent interior, as that beneteau clearly has.

Here's the best example of a tiller in a similar sized (ok, 2 foot longer) boat. A J99. In this case the tiller is mounted aft with a linkage to the rudder head which is further forward. You can see that there is then a lot of cockpit used by the helm. And note that this cockpit is considerably bigger than the beneteau's.... But the compromise in this boat is more towards performance and ease of doublehanded racing especially, rather than crew comfort.

 

[mjcoon]

Is it also offered with autopilot? Tillerpilots are a bit of a faff by comparison...

 

[mjcoon]

The advantage I found with twin wheel is that when the crew in front of your helm chunders up, one can casually step across to the far helm position.

Not to mention flushing out the cockpit through the open transom...

 

[flaming]

Is it also offered with autopilot? Tillerpilots are a bit of a faff by comparison...

The J99? Yes, underdeck autopilot.

 

[doug748]

In fact we can make an exact comparison:




Courtesy YachtExpress.

The wheels are heavier, expensive, complex, require more maintenance, are more likely to fail and tend to take feel from the helm,. For taking up room, it's six of one and half a dozen of the other.

There is no sailing logic to arrangement 1 for a small boat. However it can be a sound commercial decision if the target market tends to be unused and/or baffled by tillers.

.

 

[Tranona]

The complication is less with twin rudders as on the Beneteau. Would be interesting to know what the split in sales is between wheel and tiller.

 

[jwilson]

The tiller option probably has nearly as much linkage mechanism, as it's way aft of the rudder posts.

I like the feel of tillers in general, but I also like to be able to push a button and let an autopilot take over without messing about with a tillerpilot. So if I was buying one of these I'd probably choose the wheels just for that, plus a clear step through transom.

 

[jamie N]

A week ago I sailed on a Beneteau 381(?) which had a single wheel. I've been sailing for 60 years, and had never sailed with a wheel before, and found it to be utterly devoid of any feedback, sensitivity, accuracy or 'involvement'.

 

[flaming]

The tiller option probably has nearly as much linkage mechanism, as it's way aft of the rudder posts.

I like the feel of tillers in general, but I also like to be able to push a button and let an autopilot take over without messing about with a tillerpilot. So if I was buying one of these I'd probably choose the wheels just for that, plus a clear step through transom.

There's no reason at all that you can't have an underdeck autopilot with a tiller. We have one on the JPK, it's a very common thing.

 

[johnalison]

A week ago I sailed on a Beneteau 381(?) which had a single wheel. I've been sailing for 60 years, and had never sailed with a wheel before, and found it to be utterly devoid of any feedback, sensitivity, accuracy or 'involvement'.

I don't know that boat personally but I have sailed on an assortment of boats with and without wheels. Although a tiller without linkage to twin rudders has generally more feel and is my preferred option, I have to admit that there are occasions when a wheel is less tiring. The degree of feel from a wheel in my experience has varied from a hydraulic wheel on a friend's 40-footer which was curious but you got used to it after a while and learned to compensate by extracting information from your behind, to a very direct wheel on a sister ship to my 34, which was quite acceptable. I have never found that a tiller made the cockpit difficult for crew, regularly sailing four-up in boats as small as 22'. The great advantage of a tiller is that it can be folded up when in harbour and a much larger dining table can be deployed.

As for the 30' twin wheel; it looks fairly logically laid out to me, but standing at the helm while crossing the Channel or North Sea is not my cup of tea.

 

[flaming]

In fact we can make an exact comparison:



View attachment 134991
Courtesy YachtExpress.

The wheels are heavier, expensive, complex, require more maintenance, are more likely to fail and tend to take feel from the helm,. For taking up room, it's six of one and half a dozen of the other.

There is no sailing logic to arrangement 1 for a small boat. However it can be a sound commercial decision if the target market tends to be unused and/or baffled by tillers.

.

Honestly, for a cruising use on that boat I'd take the wheels. Think about where the helm is going to be sat with the tiller, on the aft portion of that cockpit bench. That immediately limits the cockpit area for the crew / "guests". The helm is going to have to ask someone to move every time they want to look to leeward, or tack etc. And those seem to be jib sheet winches basically where the helm would be sitting, so quite how the jib trimmer and helm are supposed to co-ordinate in the tacks I'm not entirely sure. Then the ability to sit comfortably to windward looks limited by the coamings design, which is too upright and too close to the guardrails, I suspect, to be able to get properly comfortable.
By contrast the helm, paradoxically perhaps, take up far less of the cockpit space with 2 wheels, and leaves the jib trimmer an uninterrupted path across the cockpit during the tacks, whilst still allowing the helm to reach them. And those helming positions look secure and comfortable with a good view to me.

Clearly a lot of those issues can be solved by better design (like the J99) but that route gives another compromise which is that the cockpit grows and therefore shrinks the cabin.

 

[johnalison]

There's no reason at all that you can't have an underdeck autopilot with a tiller. We have one on the JPK, it's a very common thing.

It was a pricy option when we bought our boat, but if I started again I would have one. As it is, my a/p rod is put in position at the start of a long sail and parked in a clip on the pushpit, from where it only takes a second or two to get it going.

 

[SaltIre]

One of these maybe:

View attachment 134983

Big new small yacht: Beneteau Oceanis 30.1 tested - Practical Boat Owner

Fashion mostly but it does let folk get to the back for swimming and tiller extensions are not the sort of thing that attract new sailors who have chartering experience. I am sure Beneteau are well aware of this

I sailed alongside one of these last season and it was going very well. Similar maximum beam to a Contessa 32 but triangular shaped.

.

Would you need two tillers - one for each rudder?
Edit: Your #12 answers my question...