3 person 2 on 1 off watch system...

I'd have though it would depend entirely on the weather at the time. If it's a gentle run or reach then one person should be perfectly capable to managing three hours on watch whilst one sleeps and the other dozes fully dressed on stand-by, (the stand-by one takes the next watch). If however it's a headwind then unless it's a really slow boat you're going to be tacking pretty frequently up the Channel and it would depend on wether you can tack the boat single handed. If you can't then probably better to have two up all the time and make it a two hour turn around. You also need to bear in mind that you may want the extra pair of eyes on watch given how busy it can get in places.
 
With three we've always done two on, four off at night, and roughly one hour on two off in the day, but generally letting guests do what they want if they are enjoying themselves. The Scillies are only 60 miles from Falmouth, so being geriatric, I would stop there and give myself some rest, or maybe Penzance.
 
On a couple of deliveries from the Med to UK with 3 persons on board we used the following system.
3 hour watches - 1 person "on", 2 persons "off".
The watch system revolves around the person cooking dinner;
he comes off watch at 3pm which gives him 6 hours to cook and wash up dinner, before going back on watch
at 9pm. He then comes off at midnight, and has the whole night asleep until his next watch at 6am.
This system can be rotated evenly ad infinitim .... with a different person responsible for dinner each day.
A full 6 hours sleep at night is their reward !!
 
Yes, I must admit to being confused. I have come up from the CIs and Falmouth, well past the solent in just over 24 hours - ok I know depending on wind and boat size your passage might be a bit longer but it is hardly an epic journey demanding much formality about watch keeping. I would go with enjoying the stars, being on deck if you like, or not as you prefer (in terms of who is and who isnt, not suggesting unmanned watches. Obviously if the weather is challenging a more formal plan might be called for and if it is mostly motoring then I'd be very happy with one person on watch at a time. Just saying :) I wouldnt worry about being too formal about it.
 
Guys

Thanks for the input. I guess I'm used to my own 27 footer which hardly sets the world on fire upwind, plus usually just me and SWMBO who is not confident to stand watches on her own so we do tend to stop somewhere every night. She's fine with night sailing but not on her own and that's fine with me, if she's happy enough to still come sailing I'll make a few concessions!

My mate's boat being 42' is obviously going to be a lot faster and yes, it might be a speedy trip down, even if it is upwind (very likely). However the a/p doesn't work currently hence me thinking you'll need two on deck most of the time. Plus, it's a much more pleasant experience being on watch with someone else, chatting, putting the world to rights, and being able to drink tea/the odd beer/nip to the loo without worrying if you are about to moor up on a crab pot, as well as driving the boat harder too. I must admit, even in my own boat we've always done things fairly informally (longest trip was probably Dartmouth-Lymington non stop) but there was some real fatigue at the end of that, and it was almost more out of interest to see if someone had a good system for staggering 3 people.

Thanks!
 
I suspect that on a longer trip of several days or more then a change after the first 2 days might be appropriate.

New boat to some at night etc. .... it could be sensible to share a watch or as suggested the skipper could float between other watches until all are confident/competent in the boat/rig for different conditions.

Those long sessions in the early hours can be difficult for some and especially if inappropriate clothing is worn at the outset of a watch and poor provisioning has taken place for warming drinks and a snacks.

To be on your own concentrates the mind a little until fatigue sets in.
A kitchen timer or alarm on your phone can be handy to force the watch to record all the basics+in the log book regularly, keeping an alert mind.

Crossing or possibly worse.....running parallel to shipping lanes (e.g.Biscay) is a time when watch-keeping can take on a whole different meaning. Keeping an eye on those fishing boats and other shipping at night is a time when AIS/Live radar, active radar reflectors, come into their own and best to have two on watch if possible with longer breaks in the daytime.

Fair Winds to those just about to set off. Where too Twister_Ken?

S.



Also watchkeepers, know how to call up an mmsi number on your dsc. Getting the numbers put in can be a slow process unless practised,
If it's a crucial call, it means you get through rather than trusting CH16 to get a response. Therefore getting MMSi No's from AIS is essential.
At night if the CPA is within 1/2mile, I'd recommend getting the mmsi No. down as soon as it appears on your screen no matter if it's 4 or 10
miles out.
 
If you are going to Falmouth it is about 200 miles from the Solent.
So, about 40 hours at 5 knots. Could be much quicker
SO, it's not really a steady-state watch situation, it's two days and a night or something.
I would be looking to make sure everybody got two sleeps of at least 3 hours, assuming you're not starting off tired from work or whatever.

How you do that depends on what time you set off, weather, who is most tired to start with, etc etc.

The main thing IMHO is to decide fairly soon after you get going, who is on watch when.
There is no need to micro-plan it in advance, but if I'm going to be on watch from 2AM to 5 AM, I want to know about it before 10PM, so I can get some kip first.

3 up, I've used systems where you spend part of your watch solo and part with 2 on deck. I quite like that.
It is nice to have the second person for the trickier bits, you have no ship lanes to cross, but passing Plymouth at night can be busy.
 
We did 99% of our sailing two up but once did a long passage with three people, one person was on watch and there were two dog watches. The details are:

Time Day 1 Day 2 Day 3
00.00 - 04.00 Adrian Jane Mike
04.00 - 08.00 Jane Mike Adrian
08.00 - 12.00 Mike Adrian Jane
12.00 - 16.00 Adrian Jane Mike
16.00 - 18.00 Jane Mike Adrian
18.00 - 20.00 Mike Adrian Jane
20.00 - 24.00 Adrian Jane Mike

All meals were together and quite often there were two on deck because the watch system gives you too much time to sleep.
 
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It is fairly standard in the delivery industry to implement a 3 on 6 off system. It provides natural rotation around the clock and gives each person enough sleep that they can carry on effectively for thousands of miles.

If the situation demands then the watches can easily be changed to two hours (perhaps if it is extremely cold or particularly challenging conditions). When crossing shipping lanes or reefing etc.. then the standby crew would come and join the watch leader in the cockpit.

Please feel free to download some of our sample watch patterns:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45798489/Sample%20Watch%20Systems.pdf

Pete
 
Iain C said:
Guys

Thanks for the input. I guess I'm used to my own 27 footer which hardly sets the world on fire upwind, plus usually just me and SWMBO who is not confident to stand watches on her own so we do tend to stop somewhere every night. She's fine with night sailing but not on her own and that's fine with me, if she's happy enough to still come sailing I'll make a few concessions!

My mate's boat being 42' is obviously going to be a lot faster and yes, it might be a speedy trip down, even if it is upwind (very likely). However the a/p doesn't work currently hence me thinking you'll need two on deck most of the time. Plus, it's a much more pleasant experience being on watch with someone else, chatting, putting the world to rights, and being able to drink tea/the odd beer/nip to the loo without worrying if you are about to moor up on a crab pot, as well as driving the boat harder too. I must admit, even in my own boat we've always done things fairly informally (longest trip was probably Dartmouth-Lymington non stop) but there was some real fatigue at the end of that, and it was almost more out of interest to see if someone had a good system for staggering 3 people.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Hum, well, sorry but "chatting and putting the world to rights" isn't gonna be much flippin use. The idea of being on watch (in busy places like the Channel at least) is to do just that - watch- not to have a good ole natter although i agree that is vair enjoyable.

You/others have to do the watches well enough ( and keep quiet enough, so no laughing outbursts...) to ensure that the owner can feel confident enough to go to sleep. So often just one on watch is best - they actually" look out" as summink to do, rather than tell jokes and stories...

Anyhoo... it's only one night really, so a "watch system" is slightly bollox since it takes a few days to get into a specific rhythm.

I think I would make sure I/all had a fantastic long night of sleep before setting out, (or perhaps hardly any is an idea for at least one but not all....) and when under way .... encourage others to go get some sleep - but to come back up inside half an hour or an hour max if they can't actually fall sleep, and let another try. Worst is when people come back off their four hours "sleep" and say how ooh no, they couldn't get to sleep at all !!... so of course they aren't much use to stand watch...

Eventually someone will catch some sleep, and you can survive on just an hour here and there for a short trip. So forget yer pencil, complex watch systems, dog watches, starboard larboard and lots of other romantic sea shanty carp, I'm afraid. Sorry.

EDIT: Here's a scenerio for some of the more lunatic watch systems on short passages (a few nights 1-3, say). It's dark, nothing around, no problems and BRRRRINGGGG!!!! the blimmin alarm clock goes off to sound the change of watch! This is just raving daft in my book. If someone is managing to get some precious sleep, and there's no issues ... then others should let them do that. You only need to wake others if you need a hand or of course if the person on watch feels/knows jthat having someone else as well (or instead) would be safer. Yep, this can mean that the most useless crew get the most sleep, but then that applies in all walks of life - useless people are always extremely well rested and never busy.

Note that any and all alarm clocks will somehow go off at the wrong time ("Sorry, about that everyone...")
 
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Depending on age and ability i would have a solo night watch system. You can go spinnaker in the day and white sail only at night.

With white sails:

A 2200-0000
B 0000-0200
C 0200-0400
D 0400-0600

This of course recycles every 4th night.

During the day run your spinnaker watch system.
 
Would have thought fixing the auto pilot would have been a priority. Certain
would be for me, will make the whole trip a whole lot more fun.
 
2 tips for watchkeeping (thread drift)

1. If you deliver a yacht across the atlantic 3 up with the owner on board who is a USAF pilot, be prepared for 'odd' ideas. Like 8 hours on, 16 off 'jus like a normal day man'. Was interesting and worked (sort of).

2. If your autopilot breaks when you are leaving Gib 2 up, Lanzarote is a long way away. 4 up from Tenerife to WI is not too bad. Coming back 2 up will encourage the early purchase of a Hydrovane :encouragement:
 
doris said:
Would have thought fixing the auto pilot would have been a priority. Certain
would be for me, will make the whole trip a whole lot more fun.
Click to expand...

Some people actually like sailing.
Sitting on a boat under autopilot is often boring.
And either beating or under spinnaker it is usually better to be steering.
Going west is usually either upwind or down, unlike a channel crossing.
 
lw395 said:
Some people actually like sailing.
Sitting on a boat under autopilot is often boring.
And either beating or under spinnaker it is usually better to be steering.
Going west is usually either upwind or down, unlike a channel crossing.
Click to expand...

Actually sailing is a tad more than simply steering. It's tricky to trim, nav, make tea, lots the best bits of sailing if you are stuck at just one job. I think I have done enough solo and two handed offshore to appreciate that a decent pilot and and decent sailor make the boat go fast.
I also suspect that the pilot will concentrate rather better than you can over the duration of an offshore watch.
 
tcm said:
Hum, well, sorry but "chatting and putting the world to rights" isn't gonna be much flippin use. The idea of being on watch (in busy places like the Channel at least) is to do just that - watch- not to have a good ole natter although i agree that is vair enjoyable.

You/others have to do the watches well enough ( and keep quiet enough, so no laughing outbursts...) to ensure that the owner can feel confident enough to go to sleep. So often just one on watch is best - they actually" look out" as summink to do, rather than tell jokes and stories...
Click to expand...

Erm...the three of us are good mates, we don't need to maintain eye contact during conversation, so there will be chatting, probably mostly about sailing as it usually is, 'cos we're all able to "multitask". It's also a holiday, so it's supposed to be fun. Do you know, we all actually went out for a curry the other night, talked loads and loads about sailing, and no-one either let their food go cold or stabbed themselves in the eye with a fork! ;-)
 
Iain C said:
Erm...the three of us are good mates, we don't need to maintain eye contact during conversation, so there will be chatting, probably mostly about sailing as it usually is, 'cos we're all able to "multitask". It's also a holiday, so it's supposed to be fun. Do you know, we all actually went out for a curry the other night, talked loads and loads about sailing, and no-one either let their food go cold or stabbed themselves in the eye with a fork! ;-)
Click to expand...


All fine, though nothing you have said counters my suggestions. I have done 11 transats and a circumnav and lots on this thread have a load more experience on boats than me ... and i/we can guarantee that most crews if not ALL crews have been able to talk without eye contact (difficult in moonless ocean anyways...) AND have a curry too!

I am trying to impart some experience that you have asked for, and need, and it seems you are now trying to dodge it. Oh yes you are!! You aren't alone. It's called "fake safety" like doing VHF checks every morning as if that makes everything fine. It doesn't.

You are in danger of "going through the motions" of "pseudo preparing" for the trip (like asking for advice here - good) ... but then being selective about what you listen to from what comes back (not so good at all) like naysaying me here and also hoho dodging any agreed/written watch system at all. And accepting the broken autopilot as a "given".

Your ability to have a curry with your crew is nice - but there have been lots of problems with boats and crew, ALL of whom have easily been able to have a curry together, even a vindaloo, before setting off. All crews can have a curry, ok? That's not a great or indeed any test of a "crew".

Actually, if you think about it ... it might be a better crew if one of you didn't like curry at all, could;t stand the stuff ... and if at least one (other) of you didn't have any beers with the curry too! But i am betting that didn't happen, right? You all had the curry, and you all had the beers, I think? I wonder if you can see how this isn't a good sign? I mean, it would be better if perhaps one of you was an electronics nerd who hated curry and alcohol, and so regardless of the cajoings of the other two, he said no, i'll stay here and fix the a/p, see? Not as much fun, but a load better crew, really? But whatever, there's only three of you, no matter....

Anyway, never mind the lack of nerd (actually should read as "intelligent tech-minded sailing type"...) ....

... You'll have a great day at sea, then dinner ...and then two out of three of you wil stay up whie the third ho-hum has to go try get some sleep, bah... short straw, leaving the party .... and probably he slightly fails to sleep cos he can hear the ongoing jokes ahahaha (are they talking about me?) and another had to go to the loo as you said and shhhh!!! haha .... so that in time nobody will have had much sleep at all for a while ... cos unlike normal "bedtime" like yerknow in a house - the fun and "action" is all in right there in the cockpit innit? Hvae you ever gone to bed/sleep when 2/3rds of the party is still going? Me neither...

My suggestions are aimed at you all having a great time, but with the accent on getting some sleep and be ready for stuff the next day, rather than the focus being on a full-time 66.7% of the crew having a cockpit party - and possibly a few beers, as you said. Save them for when you get ashore?

Or - much better - drop the anchor for a few hours since you are coastal, ALL go to sleep and get going again 3 hours later?? Someone above suggested this before me. Or 4-5 hours later after the tide has turned - cos as you said ... it's a holiday??


PS It's a really rubbish idea having a few beers. Or at least, if you are PLANNING the beers before yerv even set off, hummmm. How bout planing to have no beers during the passage? Is that possible?

PPS if the owner is planning on setting off and the friggin a/p doesn't work, that's a bit rubbish too, as the sensible Capn alludes to above, and others. The a/p is a solid spare pair of hands to hold the tiller/wheel while the person on watch does this or checks that, goes to the loo, all that. Before setting off get someone to fix the a/p, instead of going to the off licence? And/or... if the ap is "known broken" ... what else is there that you/he *does't* know about? That a/p was the spare crew if needed, (curry remember?) but you're gonna set off without it. Have you checked over other things like the engine or medical kit or other mechanicals? ... or were such concerns laughed away "oh you're such a fusspot! !!" - again - it's GOOD if one crew is a massive fusspot (it isn't you, sorry...) and another is a social fixer (you, possibly) another is manic ace sailor. By contrast ... you all liking curry, and all liking talking bout sailing, and all fancying a beer, and all being ok about the broken a/p .. is not a good sigm...

I think your boat needs fixing, and perhaps your collective ideas of a "crew" too. "Sameness" isn't a good thing - EXCEPT with regards to all having a very fab and enjoyable evening in the curry house, exactly as you described. BUT ... One out of three (at least...) should be clamouring for a fixed a/p. Like on this thread, see? Next thing is the swmbo's will be waiting so you won't drop the anchor for a snooze on a coastal holiday trip, cos you think there's no crab pots 25miles offshore even though there are ... and with no a/p and holiday crew, that snooze would be a really good idea ...

Hey look, I've always started any overnight or longer trip with the intention of few if any beers , and a working a/p/ But once or twice someone sneaked in the beers or er whatever... and once or twice the a/p went awol too, arg. But never both together.

This means that my "worst case scenario" of either (limited) beer OR broken a/p - but never both together ... is better that your *starting* position - with your "beer + broken a/p" combination right from the start. Plus your cockpit party idea comprising 2/3rds of the crew, all the time.

Change something? Fix something?

All meant well.
 
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